where to live to get to good state secondary?

[Daniiil]

Hi, our DD is to go to her secondary in 3 years so we try to figure out where to live (London and commuting area) to get into catchman area of good grammar (or just good) secondary state schools. Were looking at Kent, Richmond, Heampstead, etc but got really confused. Can anyone advise good places to live with good schools not so oversubsribed? Appreciate your feedback.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grammar_schools_in_England
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_modern_school

Any selective school should NOT contain average children - unless it has 50% of the local cohort - basic statistics

The comps here in Hampshire are excellent and I'm delighted that my high achieving DCs do not have the hassle of the 11 plus

Wikipedia - reliable? I don't think so.

Anyway, I can only go by my own personal experience.

I'm pleased that your high achieving DD's don't have to do the 11+ if that is the right thing for your family. I'm pleased that my average child is getting a good education in our local GS. Different strokes for different folkes I guess.

Jinx1906,
Are you saying that the list of Grammar schools is incorrect?
Or is the definition of the tripartite education system incorrect?

How about this link - from one of the counties that still operate it
www.lincolnshire.gov.uk/parents/schools/school-admissions/all-about-your-local-schools/types-of-secondary-schools/76125.article
Note that the top 25% go to the grammars - "average" kids not invited

I didn't look at the Wiki link to be honest, I don't think Wikipedia is a reliable source. Also I like to make up my own mind based on what is happening in the area where I live. I'm not really interested in the opion of an author I don't know anything about or a politician who tells us how great the comprehensives are for our childeren but perhaps not for their own. (they go to Indies instead)

Are you saying that all the average children who get in to GS because they went to Indies or were prepared for the 11+ are not there and that the top 25% gets in. This is not what is happening in Bexley and Kent. No parent with an average child should think that their DC does not belong in GS. Nothing wrong with working hard to get good results.

There is some good info out there on www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/index.php, by region about local GS' , 11+ etc ... for those with average children like me who might want to find out a bit more about what is happening in their area with regards to the 11+

Also the Linconshire link you provide states that Grammar schools aim to select the top 25%... Aiming for something and actually getting it is a completly different kettle of fish.

The big problem with the Grammars as they are today - particularly in the London Boroughs - is that middle class parents spend greatly in time and money getting their kids through the exam. THe children arrive having achieved way above their average scores and then settle back to normal once in.
Therefore bright children without organised parents do not get in.
And the Value Added scores for Grammar schools are generally low - because the kids arrived at an artificially high level.
DH has worked in many grammar schools and the teachers are well aware of the problem and have to find ways to work round it.

So there are average children in GS' then.

I don't know what Middle Class parents have to do with this, our local GS has children from all walks of life. More so than in some of the Comps where only the Middle Class and upwards can afford to buy a house in the catchment area. The GS makes it possible for children from all walks of life to get in to a good school, by working hard. Not because they are born in a family with a lot of money or are budding rocket scientists.

Also surely people who care about education will keep taps on their children's progress and not consider passing the 11+ as job done. A GCSE is not a high qualification, I'm confident most parents will be able to support their DC to this level.

Whatever this so called problem is that teachers have to work around would be, it seems to be working because these kids are getting good results.

Hi Jinx- I'm sorry, I wasn't ignoring you, I hadn't realised this thread was still going on (I tend to be a threadkiller )

As CecilyP stated- if a GS takes the top 5% (or even 25%) then that patently does not include average children, as average children would be around the 50th percentile.

I wasn't saying your DD didn't deserve her place, I'm saying it's highly unlikely she is 'average'.

I am pleased that the GS in your area take children from all backgrounds, but the GS in my area do not- mainly because there are many bright children whose parents have not got the skills themselves to assist with preparation, or do not realise any preparation for entrance is required, or do not have the means to pay for someone to do this preparation. Also because those with money (including those with children in independent school) pay a lot for tutoring to ensure their children pass the entrance examination. (as you point out- children who are coached can gain entrance even though they are not outstandingly brilliant)

I live in an area with fairly high levels of adult illiteracy, of English as an additional language (often not 2nd language, but 3rd or 4th language in fact).
You would be amazed at how many parents in my area are actually not equipped to support their children to GCSE level. There are also many parents who believe that it is schools' job alone to educate children, not their's.

I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to GS in my authority btw. Pass rates have increased dramatically here over the past 10 years, resulting in a raising of the score required to gain entrance (it was hovering around 300, 305 10-12 years ago, now you'd be lucky to get in with 340, most have 360 and higher).
Also- with regards to the background of children getting in- in my LA the percentage of children on FSM in the whole LA is 34%, whereas in the GS it is around 2.5%. This is a very strong indicator that children from humble backgrounds just do not get in.

Also regarding the ethnic backgrounds of children gaining entrance- children of Indian ethinicity are over-represented, and children of Bangladeshi ethnicity are under-represented, taking into account the relative numbers of children in each of those groups. Again, in the area I live, people of Bangladeshi family background are far more likely to be unemployed or a low-earner than people of Indian ethnicity. I am not making a judgement on the reasons for this- just stating the facts so you can see where I'm coming from I hope.