Grammar versus State, what's really different?

[Runnerbean]

My dd(10) is presently home educated but is sitting the 11+ in September in the hope of getting a place at one of the local Grammars, (4 near us). This is something my dd wants, and has been influenced by her best (schooled) friend who also hopes to go.
Apart from the obvious difference of more able children being there, what else do grammars offer?
Do they follow the NC?
Do they have better teachers? More funding?
Better choice of subjects? Better facilities?

Being home educators we're a bit 'out of the loop' as regards schools so wondered if the grammar schools are so much better.

Incidentally my dd has been working at KS3 level for the last 2 years.

We're also in the country, ds at grammar school with large catchment. I worked out recently that I clock up between 100 and 120 miles on average over the weekend ferrying him around. Roll on driving lessons in 2.5 years!

Just to add to zanzibarmum's very simple explanation - many of the very academic schools in the private sector were once direct grant schools, i.e. the very top scorers in the 11+ got to go there for free (and the schools got public funding).

That's how my mother, the daughter of a shoemaker, ended up going to school with yer genuine toffs.

And my DH

His direct grant school, is now completely private and very posh.

Mind you, my uncle who failed 11+ and went to the secondary modern (unlike my father) is now a millionaire (unlike my father). Sigh...

Edam - I went to the same sort of place as your mum, and I'm not a millionaire either! I hated every minute of it - stuck out like a sore thumb with my caravan holidays and no tennis court! DD2 went to a private prep for a short time and it was much more mixed socially than my school.

Sorry, OP, we're hijacking a bit

DS1's independent school was once direct grant and now operates a bursary system. The headmaster says he would like the school to be regarded more as a grammar school than a public school (i.e. pupils are there on merit, not because their parents are wealthy).

just to answer your question runnerbean grammar schools have stunning exam results because they take the top 10-25% of the academically most able children. The teachers are able to teach at a much faster pace and set more challenging work as a result (no remedial classes here) and this can make the children very competitive with each other. There's no getting away from the fact that GS's priority is academic results and children who can't keep up find it very difficult. GS tend to run on much more traditional lines, teachers addresses as Sir/Miss, standing up when an adult enters the classroom and lots of rules, detentions etc. Its whether you feel this is the right environment for your dd after the freedom of being homeschooled. Historically when most of the areas of the country lost its grammar schools in the 70s some of the buildings were reopened as private schools but still retained the title of grammar school ie. Manchester grammar school.

"teachers addresses as Sir/Miss"

not at ours, mumzy - teachers are either addressed by title & surname or not by name at all (frequently the latter ). Sir/Miss is positively frowned upon.

At local high school/comp however Sir & Miss are de rigueur.

Funny, eh?

Mumzy - discipline is far stricter at DD2's comp than it is at DD1's grammar - it has to be as many of the children are less motivated to learn. DD1 finds that the girls are only competitive over sport because ability varies more than it does in academic subjects. She spent a brief time at a comp and said the teachers were amazing - they had to be to try to reach some of the kids, but at the grammar she says they tend to be a bit complacent and don't have to make so much effort to be interesting - just her opinion.

Also, catchment for grammar covers such a wide area that they're certainly not getting 10 - 25% of the most able. Many more are creamed off by the private sector.

They certainly don't address the teachers as sir/miss at dd's grammar. There is a very relaxed attitide between the girls and their teachers. Also in this area the grammars take the top 5% at most - they have no catchment area and are highly competitive to get into hence the amazing results!

I think from the last 2 answers grammar schools do differ in terms of discipline and styles of management. I'm just stating what I know happens inat my neck of the woods. Some grammar schools haves a catchment area whereas other allow anyone to enter for the 11+ and you get in if you scored highly enough.

In some parts of the country, all the grammar schools are fee paying - i think Kent is the exception.

if you are doing the 11+ again, i think its only kent that still does this, the grammars are streamed by ability as their entrance criteria, so they take the more able children so achieve better results, better results attracts more funding, equals better facilities etc.

They can be very academic and a bit hot house, and not every child even if they are bright can cope with the pressure.

Not strict at our GS either! Is very selective so only top 120 get places. No probs with discipline really, just a few slightly 'naughty' ones (who are not a problem in the realms of real life disobedience...). The local high achieving comp is MUCH stricter and also seems to dole out much more homework of the project variety.

messy - 11+ still exists in other counties as well as Kent. Bucks and Berks, for instance.

Quite a lot of counties have non fee paying grammar schools: Wilts, Glos, Lincs, Herts, Warks, Yorks, Essex. You'd think they'd never been 'abolished'!!

Grammars also still going in south/south west london - sutton and kingston have them.

The Ghastly Grammar School System is still alive and well and showing, sadly, no signs of dying here in Kent!