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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Are secondary school pupils 'children' or 'young adults'?

26 replies

DisasterEggs · 30/04/2009 19:03

Had a new parents thing at DDs next school. The head was pompously proudly announcing that the pupils are all now young adults and are treated as such.
I had a ponder and think maybe the trouble with teenagers is that they are expected to act like young adults but when they do adult things like having sex, drinking, smoking, having babies etc they are then too young to deal with the consequences.
Should 11 - 16 year olds be treated more like children? Or should they be expected to act like adults and take responsibility for what they do and when? Is 11 really adult?

OP posts:

margotfonteyn · 30/04/2009 21:17

Surely 'children' up until about 13, then, not sure what, teenagers, then 'young adults' in the sixth form. 11 most certainly isn't adult. Can't stand people making children grow up earlier than they should. There is such a huge difference in size/physical/mental maturity at 11. Some are huge, some are tiny.

Saint2shoes · 30/04/2009 21:18

young people

Hulababy · 30/04/2009 21:21

They are still children for me. They may try and act older but you only have to sit and listn for a while to realise they are really just kids still.

mannishtrousers · 30/04/2009 21:25

I am a secondary teacher and I would call them children.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 30/04/2009 21:27

My son came home from school in second year (Scotland, so aged 13/14) to announce proudly that he was a young adult. I confess I poured many, many gallons of scorn upon the notion - I really was very scathing - and told DS2 in no uncertain terms that when he had adult responsibilities he could have adult priviliges too. And that would be not one moment before he left school/got a job/started supporting himself.

Pah

herbietea · 30/04/2009 21:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

MaureenMLove · 30/04/2009 21:32

Working in a secondary school, I can tell you that if you refer to them directly as children, they get very upset! They correct you and tell you, they are young adults!

scienceteacher · 30/04/2009 21:33

I would say that, in general, they are children until the end of Y9. They are still, of course, children beyond that, but I wouldn't say that to their faces.

fluffles · 30/04/2009 21:40

i reckon 15/16yr olds are 'young adults' but i'm not so sure about 11-14yr olds...

but i can see that it might be worth giving secondary school children more sense of responsibility for themselves.

stillenacht · 30/04/2009 21:41

I call them children (am secondary teacher too)

year 13 are young adults for me

Hulababy · 30/04/2009 22:50

Yes, when I taught I never described the children as children to their face once there were 15/16 age, but I did feel that they very much were still children. I would consider sixth formers young adults.

seeker · 01/05/2009 22:58

Oooh, this is another hobby horse of mine. Young adults indeed! And don't get me started on students for year 7s!

random · 01/05/2009 23:00

Would you consider a year 11 ..16 year old a child? I wouldn't

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 01/05/2009 23:50

Perhaps we need a new word to describe those who are post-pubertal but not yet adult?

lottiebunny · 02/05/2009 00:04

If anyone had called me a young adult in sixth form (not that I went to sixth form as none of the schools in my area have one) I wouldn't have been pleased. I may have been 17 or 18 but I did have a job and I did contribute to the household and I did pay for my own car and driving lessons. As far as my mum was concerned I'd left school and she had paid for me for 16 years and now it was time to start returning the favour.

I think that respect is a two-way street and that if an 11yo is worthy of being treated as a young adult then they should be. Depends on the individual in question really.

lowrib · 02/05/2009 00:23

The publicity for the new academy school down the road uses the term "pupil client"

seeker · 02/05/2009 00:32

"I think that respect is a two-way street and that if an 11yo is worthy of being treated as a young adult then they should be. Depends on the individual in question really."

But there can be respect between an adult and a child. I respect my 13 year old dd - but she is not an adult. I don't expect her to take on the responsibilities of an adult - and I don't expect her to act like one all the time. There is NO WAY that an 11 year old is anything but a child. There is no offense in the term - it is just descriptive.

lottiebunny · 02/05/2009 00:52

I don't think that the term 'young adult' means an adult that is young, is see it as more 'adult in training' which is exactly how we should see these youngsters. Secondary school is in the business of taking in children and turning out people who are old enough to get a job, live alone and get married. In short giving them the skills to survive in the real world.

So, no seeker, I don't think you should expect your DD to act like an adult all the time, just perhaps some of the time so that when she is an adult it doesn't come as a surprise what you actually do as a mother.

I live with people who were excessively mothered (not to say that you do but the mothers of these boys did) and one of them didn't even know how to switch on the oven when I met him.

However, I may completely change my mind when I have DCs of this age

Some responsibilites of a adult, secondary school pupils can meet. They can cook a meal once a week, they can do a few loads of laundry etc. I believe that if a youngster is capable of doing some of the things I would expect an adult to do then they are entitled some portion of the respect I would offer a full-grown adult.

You never know, you might be given more respect when your DD realises just how much effort it is to keep everything together. I know that when I left home I dearly wished Mum was around to clean the toilet take care of me again.

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 02/05/2009 01:01

What's wrong with the word "adolescent", then, rather than "young adult"?

seeker · 02/05/2009 07:33

But lottiebunny, I expect much more of my 13 year old dd than that - she can do practically everything that's necessary to do round the house, for example. She has much more freedom than most 13 year olds, and can do tons of stuff very capably.

I don't have a problem with people this age doing appropriate 'adult' stuff. Quite the opposite.

Actually, I think what I object to is "young adult" "young people" and "students" being used to describe children who are simultaneously being infantilized by society. They aren't being given any of the responsibilities of adulthood but they are being given the trappings of it. The media and so on are encouraging them to shed their childhood as quickly as possible but it's not being replaced by anything meaningful, so they are in a sort of limbo. And calling them "young adults" reinforces this.

Rant over - for the time being!

thirtypence · 02/05/2009 07:52

I teach in a boys school that goes up to year 8 and we call them "boys" or "sons" (if we are writing a newsletter which will be read by parents). I would say that year 12 and 13 are young adults as they have chosen to still be at school.

I call my music pupils students regardless of age.

lottiebunny · 02/05/2009 10:47

ISWYM seeker, about the infantalizing of youth.

I guess when I was this age, Mum purposely didn't interfere at school. If I got told off at school, this was between me and the school and she would not have got involved unless the school asked for it.

My brother on the other hand showed that he was incapable of taking advantage of his education and Mum interferes so much in his life that he doesn't even have his own cash cards. He's 19, left education and with a job and I still wouldn't consider him to be an adult.

I suppose in my rambliness I'm getting round to responsibility for ones own actions. Perhaps that defines an adult. When Mum doesn't fix things anymore. When a cuddle from Mum isn't going to make things better. Some people step away from parental support earlier than others, I have always been a fiercely independent person but my brother still relies on Mum.

I still think that perhaps on an individual basis with regards to maturity not age that some youngsters can be termed 'young adult'.

hennipenni · 03/05/2009 23:41

To us parents the school refer to "our children", to the children directly they refer to them as "our pupils".

seeker · 04/05/2009 22:51

"When Mum doesn't fix things anymore. When a cuddle from Mum isn't going to make things better."

Well, I'm 50, my mum is 89 - but a cuddle from her does actually make things better for me!

And I expect a lot in terms of independence from my children - but I expect to be "fixing" things for them sometimes for a while longer. They are 8 and 13 - and still children in my book.

branflake81 · 08/05/2009 16:01

When I was at primary school the head used to insist on referring to all children Year 4 and above as "young people".

Even as a kid I found it weird.

I would say year 8/9 and above young people and no longer children.

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