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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

State school to independent - will our child fit in ?

25 replies

orangetulip · 16/04/2009 19:04

We are thinking of transferring our son from state to independent at age 11. We would be doing this purely for educational reasons. We can pay the fees, but it will be a struggle.
Having decided to do this, I am at the last minute getting unnerved by the amount of money I see circulating round these schools, and wondering if our son will 'fit in'. We are ordinary hard(ish!)working people - comfortable but not wealthy - we simply want him to have the best education we can get for him.
Will he be embarrassed asking friends back here ? Will he feel different to most others ? Can someone tell me what the other families will really be like - are there many out there like us, or are we stepping into territory where our son will be very uncomfortable. Or am I overly conscious of something which he won't even think about ?
Any thoughts / experiences much appreciated - thanks..

OP posts:
Metella · 16/04/2009 19:13

Unless you are sending to him to Eton or some such, you will find a wide variety of people at the school.

At my dc's school there are families that live in huge houses and some that live in small flats. There are monster-truck cars and old bangers being driven by parents.

I should think we are amongst the less wealthy parents but the children don't seem remotely bothered.

crokky · 16/04/2009 19:16

My DH went to an independent school on an assisted place. His parents were probably the least well off out of all his friends, but nobody cared, least of all DH. He got good grades as a result of this education. If your state school is no good, go to the independent school.

Northernlurker · 16/04/2009 21:26

Hello, this is NorthernLurker's DH here. She was going to post on my behalf but has gamely given me control of the PC.

I was in this position some twenty years ago, transferring at 11 from a well-run primary school which was nonetheless in a rough part of Edinburgh that had been a mining village of old.

My parents were in what sounds like a similar position to yourself - comfortable but certainly not wealthy. My parents were both graduates, dad had had a business which was facing increasing competition and we had one car for most of my time at school, went on holidays in our caravan and didn't often go out for dinner.

For a couple of years he was studying part time and doing occasional freelance work and this meant living fairly frugally off the proceeds of the business. I was one of three and we did have 4/5 bedrooms but it was far out from the centre and in a private street surrounded by council flats and houses.

Like yourself, my parents wanted to move me for purely educational reasons. The local secondary had been good when they moved to the area but had plummeted to become one of the worst in the city. Moving to a better school meant moving to a better catchment and even 20 years ago, house prices in Edinburgh were grossly inflated around good schools and this was simply out of the question.

I still remember my first week. You've asked - will your son be embarassed to ask friends back home? I found that my part of town wasn't even in my new classmates' geography! They just didn't know where it was. A few had vaguely heard it was "dodgy" but most looked blank.

However, the good news is that the friends I made didn't care and I was not embarrased to invite them back. A few did get lost when coming on the bus though

I want to address these two points you've raised together

I am at the last minute getting unnerved by the amount of money I see circulating round these schools
Will he feel different to most others ?

It's right to be a bit unnerved and you should prepare your son for the fact that some of his future classmates will have a staggering amount of money and noclue_ about the value of things.

I did feel different and the wealth on show was staggering. I was swayed by it a bit but hopefully what I go on to say below will be an encouragement.

I made a good friend whose dad was an actuary and (even then) was making £50K pa. They were pretty grounded people who always made me feel welcome but also lived in one of the most fabulously desirable parts of west Edinburgh (caledonian lurkers will be able to guess within three which part I mean)

Said friend once asked me towards the end of our schooling "why don't you move to [his area], there's a house down near the main road for only £279,000!" (bearing in mind that this was nearly 20 years ago). At the time, my parents' house was worth around a quarter of that and it didn't even sell for that when they finally moved out in 2008.

Another illustration about the lack of clue still makes me smile to recall it now.
At the end of third year (year 10 to the sassenachs), the school insisted on splitting up classes and sending us in groups of about 20 to various locations in the wilds of Scotland and northern England to yomp up+down mountains for ten days.

On one trip, after walking two or three miles through what could be described only as wilderness in Kintail, heading for the astounding but remote falls of Glomach, one of the girls said "when we get there, will there be a shop?"

The good news is that i) it is hard not to feel slightly superior when faced with dimness like that and ii) there were several other children in a similar situation to me and one by one, we were drawn to each other.

Those that became my friends were mostly the children of ministers, teachers, musicians and other noble but impoverished professions.

We were a bit of a misfit bunch but we established ourselves and developed talents in music, drama, debating and writing / journalism. We joined the choir (regarded with suspicion), we published illicit magazines and during class times, we worked hard to prove that we had earned our place there, not got it automatically because we'd been in the prep school since aged five.

That's not to say we formed our own landlocked republic. We all had "posher" friends who lived in gorgeous houses but as school progressed into sixth form, we did find that some of the richer kids started coming to us for an alternative point of view on life.

Some of the deeply uncool things we'd been involved with eventually became popular and our experience and knowledge were suddenly in demand. I'll never forget the satisfaction of our first choir rehearsal in my final year when all the lads that were in the first XV rugby team turned up to join the choir because they realised they needed something different to put on their UCCA form (showing my age) - and because they realised that the most beautiful women in the school were in the choir!

Some of the richer kids did come to an understanding of the world we lived in and I certainly came to have a confidence in dealing with the upper class world - as well as seeing first-hand that staggering amounts of money really, truly can't make you happy.

I took both those lessons with me and the confidence that came from learning to deal with that tension is still with me today.

Importantly, all the things I mentioned like debating, choir, drama (and the yomping) are all opportunities which the school opened up to us. I would never have got to do half those things at a state school and I can categorically say that I wouldn't be the person I am today without those experiences. Sport wasn't my thing at all but the range of sports played at my school was also huge and if you're son's into that then that could be important leveller. Bags of cash don't help you when you're in the ruck!

So, to summarise a long rambling, I felt different but also had some great experiences.

Two important "riders", however.

Firstly, me and most of my friends benefitted from the Conservatives' Assisted Place scheme where you paid what you could afford and the Government topped up the rest - provided you passed the entrance exam, of course.

Secondly, the fees per year were less than what you'd pay there a term now. Do they count private school fees in the inflation figures ? Somehow, I think not

You know your son best and what his response is likely to be. I think I did have my head turned a bit at points and you should have your rebuttals ready. Midway through school I came home and demanded that we move to XXX [the luscious area where school was] cos I was sick of getting two buses home. Mum said she would love to live there too but there was no way on earth she was agreeing to my demands and that was that! So be prepared for a bit of that.

I hope that's been some encouragement. For me, the experience was overall positive and opened many doors for me, though it clearly didn't teach me to do concise postings!

Horton · 16/04/2009 22:24

I went to a pretty decent but basically bog standard primary school and left to go to one of the best schools in the country (regularly in top five for results). My parents weren't rich but they weren't poor, either. Comfortable is probably the best description, like you say you are. I didn't feel different, and I didn't feel disadvantaged and I didn't feel an outsider at all. I revelled in being somewhere that valued learning for its own sake, to be honest. I did have a laugh at one point when a friend told us that her parents were thinking of moving to Hampshire "but there's nothing decent on the market under four million" (1985-ish) but I was by no means the only one laughing and didn't feel in the least uncomfortable about pointing out that this was clearly barmy. Hope your son enjoys his school, wherever he goes.

creditcrunched · 16/04/2009 23:07

Moving my dc from independent to state (economic reasons) and I can vouch for the previous posters - there are all sorts of income levels at independent schools - particularly in London.
My advice is not to make too much a deal of it with your DS, if he's moving at 11 he'll have worked out at that time that are differences in what people have and have-not. I think its harder the other way around - many of those who have been at private school since nursery are completely ignorant socially.

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 17/04/2009 14:40

My DS1 moved from a state primary to a top indie, and we had reservations, not so much about the income issue at that stage but because the local 'wisdom' was that the school turned out arrogant privileged types, and we did not want our gentle, modest boy to turn into one of those!. We have now met people who are unbelievably (to us) wealthy, and we are not poor. But it does seem that everyone but us has at least one other home (in Wiltshire and abroad) as well as their £5m mansion in Central London, and spend all the school holidays in exotic locations.
However, that aside both parents, and more importantly the boys are friendy and the boys do not brag about things - they are so used to them that they do not feel they have even to mention them, so it is not an issue for my son.
One thing we now know however, is that we would not have sent him if we had to rely on a bursary because the extras are eye-watering (not necessarily the case in other indies of course) Have this year spent about £2,000 on odds and ends, including school ski trip , excluding uniform. Uniform about £600 9summer/winter/various sports kit. Additonally, next year school trip is £1,850, so have just paid £300 non-returnable deposit for that.

abitpearshaped · 17/04/2009 16:48

Check out the parent's cars in the carpark. My son's indie school is very down to earth, and lots of parents drive old bangers. My daughters go to a school with very posh cars in the carpark, and is a little bit snooty sometimes(BTW my car is one of the old bangers).

LetsEscape · 17/04/2009 17:34

I was in same position moving from state primary school to independent secondary. I had no problems and there was a huge range of parents and different backgrounds.

I do feel that if it is a selective school there is a sense that you have all earnt your place and therefore are equal. I also felt that the uniform helped greatly. I think a school with no uniform would make you much more aware and possibly self-conscious.

MrsGuyOfGisbourne · 17/04/2009 18:25

Lets Escape - good point about the uniform - I'd hate if it we had to get into a 'designer trainers' type scenario.

Horton · 17/04/2009 18:54

I had no uniform at my secondary school and it honestly wasn't a problem. I liked not having a uniform and I actually think it made us more sensible about clothes in the long run.

Northernlurker · 17/04/2009 21:09

Our primary school doesn't have a uniform and and I love that! I think it's actually a lot less problematic than people think it will be.

Btw - has anybody actually managed to read all of my dh's monster post?? I got as far as the pretty girls in the choir then I had to go shut him in a dark cupboard! He'd never mentioned that before....

scienceteacher · 18/04/2009 09:59

I read his monster post, NL. I'm trying to figure out which school he went to - either Heriots or Watsons, I think.

I moved from state primary in P7 to an Edinburgh independent school - over 30 years ago! My family scraped together the fees and I was the one in the second hand uniform and home made jumpers. Although I was aware that some families were much better off than us, I had no way of quantifying it. I don't think it affected relationships in school.

OhWhatAMess · 18/04/2009 10:05

i went to Heriot's and am wondering if I know him..however I wasn't aware of such staggering wealth when I was there, sounds more like Fettes to me!!

OhWhatAMess · 18/04/2009 10:06

oops I had forgotten to namechange back but doesn't matter!

mimsum · 18/04/2009 15:47

ds1 went to bog-standard primary to selective boys' independent secondary - one of the reasons we chose this particular school was the atmosphere - its intake is roughly 50-50 state and prep so although there are some boys there whose families are ludicrously wealthy there are also loads of boys who are there on a very generous bursary or scholarship.

One of Ds's two best friends is the son of a former premiership footballer, the other is the son of a single mother who still lives with her parents as she can't afford her own place.

The extras can be expensive - one of the ski-ing trips this year (choice of 4!) was £1300+ but there aren't enough places for everyone to go on them so there isn't any shame in missing out.

The type of parents/boys can vary enormously from school to school - a selective school with generous bursaries and scholarships will automatically have a more mixed intake than a non-selective school with limited financial assistance so it's worth looking around and finding one where you feel you fit in best

mimsum · 18/04/2009 15:48

went from obviously!

procrastinatingparent · 18/04/2009 16:24

This happened to both DH and me and is now about to happen to DS1 who has a free place because of scholarships/bursary. We have deliberately chosen a selective day school rather than a boarding school because as lovely as the boarding school was in many ways, there were kids there who arrived at school by helicopter!

Lots of Mr NorthernLurker's post rang bells for me and would also for DH. We both had fantastic opportunities there would never otherwise would have experienced.

Moreover we learned that there are better ways to define yourself than through your possessions, residence or income - and that's not a bad lesson to learn in life. We'll see how DS copes.

procrastinatingparent · 18/04/2009 16:27

OP, my guess is that at least at first you will notice any distinctions in income more than your son will, so it will be more your problem than his.

One of my issues with the boarding school was that I don't have blonde hair or wear sunglasses on my head in mid-winter, so I thought I would stand out.

Beetroot · 18/04/2009 16:27

Loads of people with very little send their kids to private school

Northernlurker · 18/04/2009 17:12

Science teacher - very good!

scienceteacher · 18/04/2009 19:33

Ah, so which one?

I think with yomping etc., it must be GW. GH is too city-refaaaiiiined.

Northernlurker · 18/04/2009 19:36
Wink
sarah293 · 18/04/2009 19:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

scienceteacher · 18/04/2009 19:40

OK, so GW. Now I'm trying to think of the village/suburb he is from.

orangetulip · 18/04/2009 21:41

Hello again - thanks SO SO much to all who've responded - you have really managed to put my mind at rest.... especially to:

NorthernLurker's DH - for his humourous and verbose! reply - really interesting comments, especially regarding all the other character forming activities - which for us is also a really important factor, as given the choice DS would rather sit in front of some kind of non-communicative electronic entertainment all day, so would be really really good for him.....

MrsGuyofGisborne - yes your fear of swapping the gentle modest boy for an arrogant one is also one of our fears - but I'd like to think this is down to parenting as much as schooling. So tell us - is your DS still the modest type ? Also, we have checked out the extra's, and they don't seem to be nearly as phenomenal as yours, so I think we're OK here

LetsEscape - yes he has certainly earned his place as much as anyone - infact he's been given a scholarship which is why we're going down this road when otherwise we probably wouldn't have

Procrastinating parent - your lesson in life about ways to define yourself - couldn't agree more...

ANYWAY - after all these helpful comments, tonight was the night we made 'the announcement'. He was very happy - but his reaction completely took us aback... I mentioned all the opportunities it would open up to him, and his response was "but what about all the opportunities it's closing off for you ?"... my heart just dropped. And "you're spending 1000's on my education when there're people dieing of malaria every few minutes"... Oh DEAR - this just was not what we were expecting - he sounded like he was quoting from a book or something- I don't know if it was some kind of shocked / put-on attention seeking reaction or what... whatever it was I just felt awful. DH and I had to pull him into the corner for many minutes and tell him not to feel guilty, as this was our decision not his.... OH I am happy he's so appreciative but I do not want him living the next 7 years feeling guilty all the time. I am hoping this feeling will soon pass, to be replaced by appreciation but no guilt.. Whatever we do as parents, nothing is ever 100% right is it ????

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