Btec how are they counted in the 5 A-C GSCE tables?

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At my DD's school they have decided to start KS4 in Yr9. The core subjects - Maths,English, Science, RE, ICT and PE will be studied over the full 3 years. The 3 Optional courses will run so that they study one option per year. They will also be able to take Media Studies or Film studies and Statisics in Yr9. Having looked at the options brouchure there are a few Btec/ OCR diplomas on offer. DD fancies doing Drama which I have no qualms about I was even thinking doing Drama in Yr9 might be better then say doing either History or Geog her other I wouldn't mind doing options obviously this might well change seeing as she doesn't have to make her mind up till next Feb when she starts yr8. I'm very cynical about them doing their GCSE's this way and was wondering if I'm right in making the assumption that as this BTEC in Drama is "worth" 4 GCSEs and DD did Media studies DD would be part of the 5 A-CGSCE table when she only has in reality two qualifications?

Bumping this for you. It is horses for courses - if your DD is academic you will want to make sure that she is concentrating on the major academic subjects. Academically a BTEC would not be considered as highly as GCSEs in traditional subjects. Can she do Drama GCSE instead of BTEC? There's nothing wrong in taking drama, but why not do humanities subjects or modern foreign languages as well?

Thanks Lilymaid, DD has thought about doing Geog and History but would like to do Drama as well. The school only offers BTEC Drama.

The cynic in me sees the offering of various diplomas worth X amount of GCSE's as a way of boasting the schools standing in the 5 GCSE at A-C and I was wondering if when the tables were made up diplomas worth 4 GCSE's were included in them. I'm in the middle of writing to the Head regarding this and the fact that they appear to be going against gudelines about not starting KS4 early. Apparently it's not recommended and one letter I've found online states it shouldn't be done unless the cohort is level 6 or above.

I am unhappy about the promotion of BTecs/Diplomas etc instead of GCSEs and A Levels as it does reduce the options for the more academic students. DS has friends who were persuaded to do Diplomas instead of 2 AS/A2 courses. This has meant that the universities likely to take them with these qualifications are not as good as the universities they could have gone to with A Levels. These qualifications should come with a warning notice "Don't do them if you are capable of getting good GCSEs/A Levels".

MD, you are not alone in thinking that it is a bit suss to have the '5 GCSE' being 80% made up of one BTEC. That is why there are now two statistics - the old '5 GCSE' (which can be manipulated as you have indicated) and the new '5 GCSE, including Maths and Eng' (which is concentrating their minds a bit more now!) As an example, our LEA has 63% for the first but only 47% for the latter. Tables here

I agree with lilymaid's comments.

I taught Btec drama for a year and I would never recommend any of my kids doing it. There is very little written work, and if what there is does not have to be in decent English.
I think specialising that young is mad...it narrows down so many options. Especially as there are so few jobs in the entertainment industry

And they were in no way similar to A levels

or GCSE's - I tught the dipooma which was meant to be equivalent to 3 A levels.
The Btec first in Drama is terrible.

Agree with lilymaid and would listen to beetroot

So many schools bump up their 5 A-C figures with the BTEC's...

YOu are so much more interesting if you do a broad range of diverse subjects at GCSE

Thank you Ladies, I thought I was perhaps being just a little cynical but the more I think about it all I see this as a way to massage the 5 GCSE A-C figures at DD's school. Personally if it doesn't have GCSE on the certificate I'd rule them out of the 5 GCSE tables

The options offered are dire and my worry is that even if DD chooses the more academic subjects which at GCSE only appear to be Geog and History the fact that they are courses only taught over one academic year or two and a bit terms due to the exams being held in May/June makes me wonder how many will be put into the Foundation tier and this would rule out further study at A level wouldn't it?

Taking one GCSE per year over Y9,10 & 11 is weird. Your suggested idea of taking drama in Y9 sounds sensible - these exams are supposed to be taken when the children are 16 y.o. so what sort of grades do you think that they will be achieving at 14! Save the more academic subjects for when she is more mature.

The idea of a GCSE taken in only one year is not impossible as long as they give it enough space in the timetable. In theory there is no difference between taking three subjects concurrently at 2 hours per week per subject or one subject at a time, doing 6 hours per week. However, like you, I prefer the old-fashioned, concurrent way as it gives them time to reflect and absorb the material.
Also, the other way means that she will be taking important exams every year for 5 consecutive years from Y9 to Y13.

Btecs are counted as high as GCSE's. DD1 did a Level Performing Arts and musical thearte course and she got a double distinction which is equivelent to 2 A's and all the universities she applied for accept them.

We are just discussing this on another education thread, how schools boost their 5 A-C. Thanks God for the including maths and english figures.

I am a year 10 form tutor and one option per year sounds mad. What if they dont take to one option as well as they hoped they would? That would mean a year of misery! As senua says that also means 5 years of exams.

It smacks of desperation to me are they trying to avoid falling under the 30% A-C figure?

Sorry to muscle in on the thread but does anyone know what the OCR diploma in ICT counts as? The school said it is the equivalent of 2 GCSEs - does anyone out there agree or disagree?

Marmitebabe according to the options booklet from my DD's school OCR in ICT can be worth:OCR Level 2 National First Award in ICT (worth 1 GCSE) OCR Level 2 National Award in ICT (worth 2 GCSE) OCR Level 2 National First Certificate in ICT (worth 3 GCSE) OCR Level 2 National Certificate in ICT (worth 4 GCSE)

T&P - thanks for your comments. DD's school has improved greatly over the last few years. The 5GCSE including Maths and English is above the LEA average and given the levels that some studens come in on the school has done remarkable well to achieve this. The pastoral care is really good and the last OFSTED done in November of last year was very good. I am just amazed that the school has decided to go down this route and have written a letter voicing my concerns especially since there was not any letter home or even a parents information evening regarding this I found out about it by clicking a link on the school website which was very vaguely labeled. Unfortunately my hands are some what tied as to what to do as the nearest schools are either really dire, miles away for anything half way decent and the only one I would really consider was over subscribed for DD's year group by 100 on allocation day last March. According to the council website it is the only school that is running above it's capacity limits by about 50 pupils (obviously across all years) so the likelihood of a casual vacancy coming up in DD's year group is minimal. So I think my suggesting DD does drama in Yr9 is probably the best option then looking at tutoring for subsequent years. Argggggggggggh!

As I have posted elsewhere the 'value' of certain courses (in terms of Russell Group Universities or institutions of similar weight and importance) generally seems inversely proportional to the number of GCSEs they are 'worth'!

If a subject is taught in 3 hrs per week, how come IT courses or NCS are 'worth' up to 4 GCSEs each, whereas German or History, which are generally perceived as 'harder work' are only 'worth' a single GCSE?

Go figure! My boys will be doing (mainly) traditional, academic subjects.

I've looked them up on OCR website, so bizarre. Says that the OCR national diploma in ict is worth equivalent of 2 A levels - whaaat!? I don't think so.......

Having said that I'm pleased he's doing a subject that doesn't involve any exams this summer - its bad enough revising for the rest ! Roll on July!

If you look at the qualifications on the NDAQ list National Database of Accredited Qualifications it will give you the points value for all the qualifications you have mentioned, there is a scale of values for example 34 points is equal to I think a Grade E GCSE.

You are all absolutely right about why schools are using these alternative qualifications, they are more achievable than traditional GCSE's and enable them to claim a larger number of higher level achieving students, for instance a course on Careers can be worth 2 GCSE's at Grade Ato C.