Those who's children attended private primary and moved to state senior ?

[Sorrento]

Are you happy with how things have panned out, does going to private first set your own expectations or that of the child too high ?
Did they cope well with the change ?
Am just thinking out loud for now, thanks for any thoughts.

I agree, singer: 'it's my real life.' How patronising is it, for example, to suggest that someone's life is more 'real' because they struggle more financially? How does that make their life more real than someone who doesn't? Just because people have differing experiences of life, it doesn't make them more or less real - and if you are going to argue that then you should move this thread over to the philosophy, religion and spirituality topic where we can debate the nature of existence and identity.

I see no-one has yet managed to provide a convincing definition of the life skills that private school students are lacking; all my students seem able to read, write, dress themselves, communicate articulately with peers and adults, use public transport effectively...Just what is it, specifically and concretely, that they're not going to learn by being where they are rather than at a state school?

And as for this idea that private school students are not on the same wavelength as everyone else - who the hell is? What is it about a state school education that magically allows those students to be on the same wavelength as everyone in the entire world - including those less privileged than them? I was educated at a comprehensive school and am pretty damn sure that I am not in tune with what it means to be living in a refugee camp in an African war zone as a result.

As someone said, the area your school is situated in counts for a lot.

My DS's state grammar is in a small rural town surrounded by rolling hills and pretty villages - two or three housing estates.

I asked him if there was a discernible difference between his peers there and those at his private school, and he said 'actually, they're mostly middle class' - with a few from the estates.

Whereas my comprehensive was in an exclusively working class urban area, and I have to say - it may be my personality - but I still feel a sense of social unease, in spite of having a degree and a reasonably successful career pretty- DCs.

I suspect it's easier to have an inner confidence, whether that comes from your schooling or your home life, than to have a nagging feeling of not being 'good enough.'

I think this is the important thing to instil in children, whatever background they may come from.

"my comprehensive was in an exclusively working class urban area, and I have to say - it may be my personality - but I still feel a sense of social unease, in spite of having a degree and a reasonably successful career pretty- DCs."

Yes I'm the same. Privately educated children do seem to have an inner confidence. As I travelled further up the career ladder and met posher people, I would find myself feeling like an imposter. Especially when people asked me what school I'd been to. I was always confused by that - there are loads of comps in London, why did they think they would know mine!

Also I agree that some comps are exclusively middle class, just like private schools - and with that comes a naive sense of entitlement which I don't think helps anybody.

I am NOT saying going to a state school automatically makes you understand 'real' life or whatever!!!

All I am saying is that being educated with a small set of the population gives you a different outlook as to what is normal life for most people. My DCs go to a grammar school, I don't profess to know what it's like for DCs educated in an inner city failing comp. It's all comparative.

It just seems to me that the privately educated cannot accept that their lifestyles are not the norm for most people. That's all.In the same way, my lifestyle isn't the same as a lot of people too, but I don't pretend otherwise.

Ok well since I started the thread I'd better stick my oar in.
I am considering private senior or primary for my DD's who are currently in a state school, which is very fluffy, very middle class and not all that academic.
So my dilemma is and I'm being very honest here so forgive me. I have never met anyone from private school that I have liked.
However I do think they offer a better education, I know lots of nice people who've sent their child to private school having not been themselves though.
So do we continue as we are and use the state system knowing the standard isn't what we like in any area but we have acquaintances, I don't do school gate friendships it's bitten me on the arse too many times now or more to private for either the remainder of primary knowing we'll probably meet some of those people again at the grammar or hold off until senior school ??

Well, my dd is at a state grammar, and the social mix is HUGELY narrower than at her large state primary. There is one non-middle class girl in her form, and she calls herself the "token chav". At Primary school there were ALL social classes represented - a much healthier way to educate children in my opinion. I am prepared to bet that the private schools round here don't even have the 'token chav"!

Doesn't it depend on the private school? Ds's school makes sure that they know they are privileged. I know many wealthy people who have chosen the excellent local state primary school. Unfortunately I can't afford to spend £1m (no really) on a house to be in that catchment! Some of the children will go on to the local grammar school and the rest will go on to private secondary. The less well off people are faced with a failing catchment school, hence the decision to go private with the hope that the education they get will be good enough to pass 11+.

I think you know the answer already!

If you send your child privately you WILL get better exam results but you won't get a huge social mix (despite protestations...). You won't get a huge social mix at grammar schools either, but possibly a little bit more than at a private school.

Too be honest I don't care about the social mix, my girls cousins live on council estates, they love them as much as they would if they lived in a mansion they don't care.
What concerns me slightly is the bubble factor but I am hoping that University is the place you become the woman you'll be, that seems to happen for most I know, it's just making sure they get there.

So DD1 has two years of primary left, DD2 has 3 and DD3 has the whole 5 years to go, is it too late to move them and get the results I want for the local grammar or should I hold off and concentrate on senior school.
The head said last year DD1 is a contender for grammar but needs to put the effort in which she has this year. And she is the one I was most concerned about getting in.

I think we definitely agree on that, Bagsforlife. And we can also definitely agree that the education system in this country is inequitable and fundamentally flawed.

You will get a much narrower social mix at any selective school than at a comprehensive school - whether the school is financially or academically selective, or, as in many cases, both. There will be a few not-very-well-off people on bursaries etc at private schools, but they will all come from families with high academic aspirations. You will get more not-very-well-off people and perhaps even some not-well-off-at-all ones at a grammar school, though even this will depend on the area.

Where we are, there are a couple of grammar schools in neighbouring boroughs and you have to choose actively to apply there; this means that everybody who applies is from a family who at the very least has worked out the education system and wants 'the best' for their children. They may suffer from material poverty, but not from poverty of aspiration.

In fact (sad but true) virtually the only children who end up going to our linked secondary school are those who have got neither the resources (financial or social) nor interest to seek out an alternative. Which is hugely unfair for those children.

Absolutely singersgirl. Completely agree with you

I just have a thing about people who send their children to private schools and then go on about it them not being particularly priveliged, 'there's all kinds of people there', 'we go without foreign holidays and three cars, and big tvs' that sort of thing, when 90% plus of the population do not attend private schools.

Of course they are privileged but it's about priorities too isn't it ? There are quite a few at our state school who instead of driving a new merc every year and going abroad three times and then coming home and lording it over those who don't I personally wish would bog off to private school. And then they'd meet real money and realise just how relatively poor they are and always will be with the spend spend spend mentality lol

For those posters hoping to get their DCs in to grammar school: don't assume that by going private you will achieve this.

There are a few private prep schools around who specialize in 11+ and Common Entrance entry, but most have nothing to do with 11+ preparation, especially if they have their own senior school.

So don't assume you will necessarily be helping your DCs' chances in this by moving them to a private school.

I know this has all been done to death in various threads, but it's a straightforward process of finding out which test papers to practice (verbal or non-verbal reasoning), and practising them enough to stand a chance in the exam - as well as building vocabulary through reading.

The actual education your child receives at school plays a minimal part in this process -apart, obviously, from instilling numeracy and literacy skills.

And building vocabulary through reading

Oh, and when I mentioned my career 'pretty DCs' a few posts ago, I actually meant 'pre DCs'.

They are pretty, obviously, but that's not really relevant to the point I was making!

Couldn't not chip in!

I went to a private school and so did my bro.

There is a huge difference between schools, some are cheaper some cost the earth, some have mechanisms whereby children mix with others some don't, some are based more in communities and some aren't.

My brothers school was very expensive and very posh. Set in the country with rolling acreas etc and was boarding and day. More of the idea of a public school I suppose. You didn't have to be as acaedmic to go there.

My school was extremely acadamic and an awful lot cheaper. When people say "people from all backgrounds" of course that is rubbish but it's not all multi-millionairres. A lot of the parents in my class were "in business" whatever that means or teachers. Yes they obviously had a reasonable income but not staggering wealth.

I went to a state 6th form and settled in easily.

The interesting thing is that my brother is about 15 times posher than me! While I have a local accent my bro talks like he has a plum in his mouth. He doesn't mix with a huge range of people whereas I do.

But then we have very very different personalities as well.

I think to say broadly that all private school people end up like my bro is way too general. I have met people from posh areas with state educations who have never met/mingled with anyone outside their social group either (it is a real bugbear of mine).

I also think that "life skills" wise I learnt many things at a private girls school which my state friends at 6th form didn't know about - at school about 70% of my class had eating disorders, there was a lot of unerage sex and drug consumption was fairly high. It's not all sweetness and light in the private sector either.

The perception that privately education children do not acquire lifeskills is one of those laughable misconceptions that really do not warrant much of a response.

It shows an ignorance of both private schools and state schools. It implies that there is a high degree of mixing in state schools - I have news for you - there isn't.

In all the private schools that I have been associated with, money really is not something that is talked about. It is not social divider. People make friends because they like one another, not because they have three sets of genuine Ugg boots. Kids really aren't that shallow.

In my own experience as a pupil, I felt that I was more able than my state school brother because I had a much broader experience than him. I commuted to the big city and he lived his life in a dull small town. I don't think he would be able to work out the quickest way across the city by bus if his life depended on it. For me, I knew it like the back of my hand, as my friends lived all over the place. In holidays, I would often travel long distances by train to visit my boarding friends. I was also exposed to a variety of lifestyles (eg lots of my friends lived on farms, so I got to see that first hand). It didn't faze me at all to Inter-rail when I left school (this was the days of paper timetables and before mobile phones had been invented - so it really was a big adventure).

I managed to get married, survive the US immigration system, and settle in new country when I was 21. I think those are pretty valuable lifeskills. I didn't flounder because I had some kind of cotton wool upbringing - quite the opposite. I was taught to grab opportunities and make them happen.

I have heard that pupils at our local private school(it's near the top of the league tables), are constantly told they are the 'creme de la creme'. Consequently these children often develop a rather superior attitude.

They are transported on special school buses into the school, which is in an inner-city area from the more affluent suburbs. Although their school is in a disadvantaged area they never mix with the locals. Infact they don't really get involved in any community except their own privileged school community.

This doesn't seem like preparation for life to me.

It depends on the school.

I did state until 13 and then private - much preferred private but then i was at a crap state school.

DS1 is in reception of lovely prep school which as a very nice ethos and a mix of parents. Of course all can afford fees or have grandparents who can but not all are loaded.

Also it does depend on who else your children mix with - most of my friends children go to state. However in Bath where i live - its not exactly a massive social mix anywhere.

To add to your comments, scienceteacher, because the school I teach at has a significant number of international students, they seem far more independent than some young people. When we broke up for Easter, for example, many of them were making their own way to airports by public transport in order to make the unaccompanied flight home.

One of my students, an Italian boy, speaks five languages and many of them sit GCSEs in English and English Literature alongside the native English speakers. You may argue that this is simply an academic point but when they leave school, I feel that their fluency and confidence linguistically will prove a hugely valuable life skill.

Of course, I appreciate that the huge variety of cultures to be experienced at the school doesn't count because it's a private school (or so I read on another thread - the poster making the point wasn't hugely clear in explaining why, probably something to do with the tediously repeated fact that because that these students come from well-off families, the effect of mixing together in a genuinely multi-cultural community is negated) but the students do also seem to gain an enormous amount from their interaction with one another.

Slayerette, I would say the international students at state secondary are also extremely independent - many of them are asylum seekers.

A friend of mine was amazed at one 11-year-old girl who arrived with no English, but learned enough in a few months to complete all the application-for-asylum papers for her entire family!

I think a broad range of cultures is extremely valuable but that it isn't necessarily a private vs. state issue.

Many state schools rated highly around here have an exclusively middle class population and all its attendant lifestyle competition.

I'm relieved my daughter is going to a very mixed school, I hope to avoid the worst of the 'hiring a limo and a nightclub for a 14-year-old's birthday party,' stuff that goes on.

Accepted, smallorange, and I wouldn't want to suggest for one moment that they aren't very independent. But since the accusation was that private school students had no life skills, I wanted to offer examples of those I know that do

Yes I see that, Slayerette . And I could also say that there are many children from deprived areas around here who have barely been out of their housing schemes and who have practically no 'life experience' at all.

Absolutely not MrsJammi, it is essential that you fit in with the majority opinion or else you aren't allowed to play here and have to sit in the corner, have you not worked that out yet. I only stay because I know so many would rather I left

I love a good private vs state barney. Wish I could have a few glasses of wine - it's much better when you're drunk

I agree with you mrsjammi - with the proviso that there are many state schools which have a similar mix of well-off middle class children who go skiing every easter.

And there are some state schools where the majority of kids have never been out of their housing scheme and, again, have very little experience of how the other half live except through the telly.

The whole system is fucked up IMHO.