How important is the first year of secondary school?

[admylin]

I have a dilema at the moment. We are abroad and h has announced that he will still be applying for jobs in UK but he has another 2 and a half year contract here.

Ds should go into the first year of secondary in UK in September. Here he goes to a local grammar school but the education system isn't that great and I think he's wasting a hell of a lot of time on the local language study, on sitting in English as a 2nd language lessons and on very basic, boring general science which is all that is offered.

Wouldn't he have physics, chemistry, biology, Latin and French in the 1st year at secondary? If he misses a year or even 2 and the all important basics of these subjects will he ever catch up? There's no way I can teach him here as they get so much homework as it is and as I said alot of his time is spent on German which is the local language.

What would you do in my situation? Should I be putting all my efforts of persuasion into force and go back alone so he starts secondary with his peers?

Most state secondaries we looked at didn't offer latin - just French and possibly Spanish or German from year 8.
They also seem to do combined sciences at a lot of state comps now - though don't know about grammars. So the chances are you may not be missing that much of the curriculum, though the lack of challenge would concern me. What sort of school would you be looking at in the UK?

Depends which schools you are thinking he will go back to. Do you have a home base in the Uk, to research the local schools? It seems to be pretty common that children actually slip back academically during the first year in secondary (as per SATS achievements), and only really start to make progress again in the second year.

Most secondaries will do integrated science in the first year, so won't have separate timetabled phy/chem/bio lessons, though they will offer all these subjects iyswim. Most schools do one MFL in Y7, then add in a 2nd in Y8 (some trad schools will offer latin as well). Though some seondary schools only every offer one language (generally a choice of French/Spanish). Depends where you are a bit, admylin.

I'm a regular lurker on your Gm education threads, and fwiw imo if you think you're going to come back, you should should do it in time for the main secondary start. Good secondary schools have v. little movement after Y7, so you run the risk of not being able to get him into a good school. Dd1's school hasn't had a single pupil leave or join her year over the past three years. Most popular schools will be full to capacity and you'd be very unwise to count on places becoming available. The only alternative would be to move to an area that has 12+ or 13+ entry (Cranbrook in Kent is the one that people move house for that has a 13+ intake. But you have to live on the doorstep, I gather).

Also I think you would find that because the curriculum structure varies a bit across schools esp wrt languages, he might not be able to take advantage of all the subjects offered unless he starts at the beginning. That would be particularly true if you wanted him to do German, as lots of schools don't offer it. Otoh, schools are generally v. happy to support kids with a non-English mother tongue to take GCSEs early in that subject -- one of Dd1's classmates took Spanish GCSE in Y8 and got one of the highest marks in teh country. She didn't need any teaching as such, but the MFL dept went through some papers with her to prepare.

What areas are you looking at? That will make all the difference, I think.

Yes, I know the school in UK and it is excellent (one of the top state schools)and I know the science they offer is a very good standard with physics, chemistry and biology from the first year. Would it be so basic that he would catch up easily? He wouldn't get French or latin here in his present school for another year either.

We have the book for the next 2 years of science here and it's mostly biology (very basic) no chemistry or physics and even when he has chemistry - remember learning the list of elements, chemicals etc ? All the names are totally different here so he would have to learn them in 2 languages. These are just the sort of things I'm trying to figure out - are we silly not giving him the same start as others his age or would he catch up? He's going to be up to standard in maths as that seems to be the only subject that is well taught here and on a level with UK age group.

I also know that he would be sitting his German GCSE in year 7 as I know of another German/British dc in the school that did that which is great for their motivation. Looking at his German grammar school here he could even attempt the A level if he had time to fit it in.

They definately also offer all 3 sciences in year 7 (prize winning scinece school).

Admylin, the Y7 curriculum def involves all three sciences, just that not all schools will timetable them separately, iyswim? I remember dd1 doing topics in all three subject areas, but timetabled as 'science', I guess to give the teachers more flexibility wrt timetabling and allocation of staff and rooms. From Y10 onwards they separate them into three discrete subjects, with specialist staff.

Have you checked whether your ds would get into the award-winning school if you applied out of the normal time? Cos from personal experience the whole applications thing is so fraught that I find it really hard to believe that a super-desirable school would have places free for people who move into the area. That would be the main issue, tbh. Wrt catching up, UK schools generally v. good about supporting children from different systems. But that may be less true if the school doesn't have much pupil movement and/or it's a selective school in the first place.

Frankly, the stress around secondary applications here is madness as it is. To skew the odds by not applying in time for the normal deadline would seem a bit unwise to put it mildly, if it can possibly be avoided. Doubly so since you and the dc aren't actually happy with the system you're in atm. Is the school selective, or does it have a sibling policy? If the latter, then you're sorted for dc2 as well, which is always a bonus.

Admylin, I think you do need to make a decision either way very soon.

We left UK well before dc reached secondary age so I can't really comment on the curriculum and my own experience is a looong time ago. One reason why I was happy to leave when we did though was that we would avoid the whole application process for secondary schools in SE London. Talk about out of the frying pan....!

Frogs is right the whole process if very fraught. Our area of London was particularly bad though (a handful of good schools and the rest very bad) and it may be better where you would be. If you didn't get a place at your chosen school what would the alternatives be? Would you be happy to accept the second or third choice?

Not trying to put you off at all. I think it probably would be the right move for you all. Just that you need to move quickly!

Are you talking about trying to find a place for Sep 2009?

I've heard that the school isn't full and has widend it's catchment area (far far from London and SW so not such a stress factor!). It is award winning but it's in quite a rural area. Huge sports fields too. It's lovely and I am fairly sure ds would get in.

If he didn't get in, there are good schools in neighbouring towns which have also had very good results. At a push I could home school him too until he gets a place. I can't do it here as it's illegal and doing the British curriculum after local school isn't possible as they have so much to do as it is. I'm just so worried that if we do stick it out, and then in 2 years h eventually gets a job in UK we will be confronted with the stress of getting a place and ds being able to catch up on what he has missed.

Just do it, admylin! Gwan, gwan, you know you want to.

If it helps your decision-making, I think most people with dc in UK schools are broadly happy with the education system, despite all the angsting you read in teh papers. Not sure the same is true of Germany, tbh (I have friends and relatives with dc in both countries).

Frogs, you've got me - I know I want out of this system and I'm looking for good 'excuses' to convince h of the benefits and to soften the fact that he'd be left by himself here in Germany!

Thank goodness for cheap airlines - he can (oops meant could) book all his holidays and come and visit us!

If you'd asked me a few years ago, I'd have said no problem lots of students mostly coast in yr7 and you'll easily catch up the academic stuff.

But actually I don't believe that now. Lots of the brighter students really flourish with the privilege of specialist subject teachers and just fly in yr7, and this then feeds into setting for yr8s, and accellerated curriculums and so on.

Socially it's also always going to be more difficult to join later in the system. Added to the adjustment from a different school system, which is very different from the UK one...

If you've got any flexibility at all I would encourage you to return to the UK before the start of yr7 if you possibly can!

What part of the country is this amazing school with spare capacity? I think lots of people will want to move there!

Lol roisin. No way am I telling and anyway it's much too far away from the SW for any of you to commute to work from! Although you could send your dc to board there as it takes boarders!

Still trying to figure out if it would be best to come back now. Sounds as if there are more points for than against though.

I'm in the NW!
But ds1 is already at a superb school (yr7)

Lol roisin! I'm also talking about a place in the NW ! We'd better keep all these superb schools a secret then.

I've found a top school as well and have contacted the LEA and been told if and when we moved there (we haven't even moved there yet, DS would definitely get in as it's the closest one to where we would be living. It's not in London or the NW but somewhere in the middle so this thread just proves if you look hard enough and long enough there are still some diamonds out there just waiting to be dug up!!

Thats wonderful news Loveandlight I really hope it works out for you and your DS