Is scienceteacher out there, please?

[MotherOfGirls]

Hope you don't mind the direct approach but I have seen your posts on threads regarding GCSE science options and would be really grateful for your thoughts as we approach a decision for our Year 9 DD1.

She will be taking 11 subjects (some GCSEs and some IGCSEs). 7 are compulsory and these are:

English Language
English Lit
Maths
French
Double science
RS (short course)

She has chosen to do:

Latin
Geography
Drama

Her last choice comes down to single sciences or PE and she is struggling to decide. She is predicted A / A* in sciences, whichever way she goes, as she is in most subjects (not bragging - just giving the background!)

She has no idea what sort of career she wants, although I had assumed it may be something with languages, as these seem to have been her great strenth to date.

My question is - is it worth choosing single sciences to keep career options open later? What would she be closing the door to, careerwise, if she chose the double science?

Sorry this is so long! Have to come up with a plan by the end of half term.

Science and Additional Science are an adequate preparation for A-levels - she will not be closing any doors. The three extra modules for triple Science are more of the same - just more content, not more depth, so are not particularly bonus for A-level, especially as your DD sounds bright and will quickly absorb it if she does A-level.

Saying all that, unless she loves PE, it's not going to contribute much to her CV. Triple Science will be better, most likely. It all really comes down to what she likes doing.

HTH

Thank you, scienceteacher.

My feeling is that double award science will be enough - and you seem to confirm that. She does enjoy PE and games and I'm hoping that with 11 GCSEs she can afford to have 2 'fun' or less academic ones - i.e. Drama and PE but I think I need to find out a bit more about the PE course.

Off to do more research!

Thanks again - I appreciate your wise words.

I would check with school that double science would be ok if she decides to do science AS. School told my DS that it would be and we have found out (post mocks) that the classes taking double science are only being put in for foundation, so can only get max C grade, but need B to do AS. We have made a fuss and he is being entered for higher level and we are paying external private tutors to cover extra work. Obviously we are livid but I'm sure it varies from school to school so worth checking.

That's crazy, CD. The extra material for higher vs foundation amounts to handful of lessons.

I don't know about all the awarding bodies, but the one I teach, Edexcel, lets you mix and match foundation and higher. It is all determined by UMS points. For each award, there are 10 different entries, amounting to 10% each. Of those, 4 are neither foundation nor higher. Depending on what the school decides to do, in the remaining 6 entries, the student can decide for themselves when they go into the test. If they do the foundation questions, they get fewer UMS marks per question, but they all add up to the final score.

It is crazy that a school should actively limit what a child can achieve when the course isn't designed that way.

If you have a bright child who is 'good at everything', they may not have enough time in the week to do three sciences. It is really bad to force a child that is not going to pursue a scientific career into three sciences just because that is the only way they will get the A* they are capable of.

In DS's school there are two "flavours" of double science. One is recommended if you are sure you won't want to do single sciences at A level, as it won't prepare you well enough for individual A levels. The other flavour of double science will allow you to go on to do A levels. I can't remember which is which (DS is doing triple science hence didn't really register and he's out at the mo.) Will ask him when he comes back if you're interested? I know a colleague's DCs are at private school and if they think they might want to do science at A level they have to do triple science cos they only offer one double science and it's not the right one for A level IYSWIM.

Sounds like a strange setup, Lilo.

Science/Additional Science (it's not double science anymore) is a fine foundation for AS-levels. The GCEs carry on from Additional Science. They don't assume that you have done the third modules.

DS is in Year 11 Science Teacher, so no doubt it might have changed by then. His year had to choose between triple science (separate Bio, Chem, Physics, = 3 GCSEs) OR one of the two double science choices, both worth 2 GCSES. Additional Science (OK for taking science at A level) OR Applied Science (double award, not recommended if you wanted to take sciences in 6th form).

DS school does AQA board - don't know if that makes any difference. It seems to be political cos physics dept are teaching higher and have virtually finished syllabus, but both biology and chem depts say they will only just finish foundation syllabus by Easter hols and won't have time to do higher.

DS only wants to do physics at AS and that is his strongest subject. I'm finding it very frustrating but don't like to criticise school too much - presumably they know what they're doing and they certainly know more than I do! Costing a fortune in private tuition but at least its giving DS opportunity and now its up to him (with lots of support and tlc from us). Ho hum

I confess, Lilo, I don't have a lot of experience with Applied as we don't do it at our school. I did do it when I was doing a maternity cover and I didn't really rate it - definitely not a stepping stone to A-level. I think the new spec GCSEs are fine for those students who would have naturally been steered into Applied as it is a very broad specification with something for everyone.

CD, your DS may be able to do Sci, Add Sci, and Physics P3 - I think he would have to do repeat modules of P1a/b and P2, but the awarding body does offer it three times a year, which means 6 times in the course of 2 years.

Hi is Science teache out there please? My daughter needs reassuring about opting for Triple science before she hands her options in next week and we need some more info what the difference is between Double and Triple (school not too informative on the matter)

Thanks

Not science teacher here, but I can provide some info...

For double science you sit biology, physics and chemistry paper 1 (sometimes divided into 1a and 1b) usually at the end of year 10, and biology, physics and chemistry paper 2 usually at the end of year 11. Additionally you have to do two school-based practical assessments in any science (many schools do one in each science each year and then choose the best 2 results to submit to the board).

For triple science you do the same papers as above, but the '2' papers are usually done at xmas in year 11 (some schools move everything earlier and do the '1' papers at xmas in year 10) and a corresponding set of '3' papers is sat at the end of year 11. 3 practical assessments are needed, one in each science - again it's common for schools to do one of these per year per science and choose the best result for each science to submit. So effectively the only difference is what is covered by the third set of papers and it's worth noting that because only double is needed for A level, all the more important stuff is included in the second set of papers.

I don't think there's a particular advantage to doing 3 over 2, though it has become more fashionable of late. Doing A levels from the double option doesn't make as much difference as you might expect to the workload. If you enjoy them and aren't missing out on doing something else you want to do by choosing all three then that's fine.

Thanks that is very useful Snorkle, had Year 9 parents evening this week and as her teacher is in his first year of teaching tbh it was not helpful - the thing that puts her off is the two science lessons a day if you take triple but the column choices are steering her towards it as the other options are 'soft' she is taking french applied art and design and drama also but is G@T in science but (honestly) does not 'love' it ..........

Good info from Snorkle, although the specific structure of the modules depends on the awarding body you use.

It's the third modules in Biology, Chemistry and Physics that lead to the triple awards. They cover new material, rather than revisiting anything done in the first two modules in more depth.

It's not essential to do the third module for access to A-level, as these courses are designed to take over from where Additional Science finishes.

I would say that in the ideal world, you want to get a broad and balanced range of GCSEs, therefore I would not do triple science in place of, say, a MFL. However, it is a fine qualification that a scientific student will enjoy.

In the non-ideal world, you need to fast-forward to A-levels and see if the school has put any restrictions on access to these courses. They may, for example, only allow triple scientists to do the higher level GCSE, and limit everyone else to foundation - and in turn tell you you need a B in order to do the A-level.

Science teacher - I have sent you a PM with a bit more detail but thanks for that - appears that it wont restrict her but not sure its a subject that she would opt for tbh for A level, and also she is considering doing the IB if that has any relevance?

FiMac1

Probably a bit irrelevant if she doesn't want to do science A level. But, some very academic schools only offer double science. I think people are panicing unnecessarily over these. A friends daughter did double science, then went on to do Biology and chemistry at AS level and has been offered a place at Oxford to read biology. So I'm not sure its worth all the panic. She also joined a school at 6th form who had done 3 single sciences and didnot find this a problem.

We are also restricted by what is in the forth column tbf, and the other subject are fairly 'soft' - child development fo instance which is forcing many in her school to take triple even if they are in the lower set in Year 9 - apparently last year a class of 30 were picked by ability for triple and it wasn't actually on the option choices....