Can someone talk to me about grammar schools please?

[Idrankthechristmasspirits]

Hi,

I have a dd in yr 4. On the gifted list at her state primary but i think this means feck all really (am aware it is the top 5% in her school only and not a real comparison across the country IYSWIM).
Both the state secondary schools that we are in the catchment area for are failing and have less than 30% achieving 5 gcse's at c grade or above. Both are under threat of either being closed or amalgamated to form an academy, which i think will not improve things at all.....

I am really concerned that dd will lose her momentum to do well if she ends up at the catchment schools so have put her name down for 3 independent schools.
However, I have heard Good Things about grammar schools as well. I'm aware she will have to take the 11+ and do really well so will look at tutoring in yr 5 for the verbal reasoning side of things as well as a brush up on maths and english?

I'm confused about catchment areas etc though. I'm in Essex, closer to Harlow than Epping so can i apply to all grammar schools within a "do-able" distance or would i be restricted to catchment areas?
Any info on applying to grammar schools will be really gratefully received.

bfl i disagree

tutoring can make a huge amount of difference

the problem lies - and this has been said ad infinitum - in when the over tutored child gets there

dd was at a primary school that ranked 6th in the country when she was year 6

Her teacher sang her praises day and night ' so bright - level six entention papers' etc etc

she got into the 'much sought after grammar school' and had to quickly re adjust to being ' one of a hundred'

These schools expect a LOT from their pupils. A lot of them adopt a 'university' or 'pupil led' approach to learning . It; s sink or swim and ime - the school dont care . There are another 20 kids on the waiting list eager to take the place of those who dont like the pressure

Yes, I agree with you Ria!

Once they get there it is very much sink or swim if they want to get the string of As.

My DS1 managed to, ahem, 'under achieve' by being v lazy and the teachers weren't particularly interested in lazy boys like him.( But he still got to Russell Group university.)

However, he really, really loved the school and had a fab time. He didn't see it as not keeping up, he didn't feel inferior to those that worked hard.

So I actually send my DS2 there not
particularly for the academic side but because I knew he would be happy (which he is), it is a smaller school than the comprehensive and there's no bullying. I really am in a minority here but having hated school myself, my DCs happiness is more important that their academic results to a certain extent.

'Tutoring' is a scary word!! Surely what most do is pay someone else to 'brush up' skills the children already have and familiarise them with papers no more than once a week, 6 months to a year before to prevent entire family arguments of 'I don't want to/not yet/after this TV programme' variety. That's what we did for our 3 DC who are all at grammars that rank order the children. By the way, they have to survive when they get there and imo if they need loads of extra help they won't manage. At my DDs school there is a recognised 'falling off' in Year 8 by girls who have been overtutored. In our area(Kent), you cannot 'learn' the papers as they are done at speed.To a degree you either can or can't and you can usually tell by Year 4 those who will!. I certainly would NOT WANT to put my children into a grammar unless they could get in easily.
Good luck!

I think we are comparing apples and oranges here. The grammar school system is different all over the country (where it still exists that is). I believe that there are a lot more grammars in Kent than there are here in Essex (where the OP lives). I may be wrong but I thought that in Kent the grammars took about 25% of children whereas in Essex they only take 5% therefore making the competition for places much more difficult. I think there must be plenty of children in Essex who don't get into the grammars who would cope perfectly well there but there are not enough places and that is why many parents here feel the need to tutor their children to give them the best possible chance of getting in.

km1 we live in the north and it is different when you live out of catchment to 'in'

the pressure is huge

most children are tutored out of area dont know about 'in'

bagsforlife

your ds1 sounds like dd

i am slightly embarrassed that my bright but idle daughter fails to achieve potential by hovering somewhere about the middle of the school....BUT..she is happy and will achieve great results because its a fab school

Ria which LEA are you in?

North Yorkshire

Okay - just wondering as I'm in a grammar school LEA as well.

is it not the same one cornsilk?

No I'm in Trafford.

Ria - where we live there are no catchment areas. Anyone can apply no matter how far away they live and they only thing that matters in terms of getting a place is where you come in the ranking. I guess it is the same pressure faced by the people in your area who live out of catchment. It is a bit annoying for us as we live closer to the grammar school than out catchment comprehensive but that counts for nothing when you apply!

I take your point, KM1. I guess what I am trying to say is - as a parent you know what your child can do and how much extra work they will do. Advice to OP. Contact grammar school direct. Find out what type of paper they do (standard or multiple choice),which ones they do and find out what their particular admissions criteria are. They might tell you where the cut off points in terms of marks are for previous years. Our DSs school are also very keen to point out that 'full marks' does not mean 100 per cent correct as the score is standardised.
HTH

km1 i feel for you

our boys school operates like that for out of catchment - so you could be 1 metre out of catchment or 15 miles and makes no odds

very unfair - they just take the top scores regardless