Language choices in year 9.

[seeker]

My dd has to choose two subjects from of Spanish, Latin, German and Classical Civilization for year 9. She has to choose either Spanish or German, and one other. Any thoughts on which would be best? She wants to choose Spanish and Latin, and I am happy for her to do that, unless anyone knows a good reason for doing any of the other combinations!

I've heard the 'heroes for zeroes' one too.

A bit disparaging, but I'd agree on the whole that Classical Civilisation - without Classical languages - has all sorts of merits, but academic rigour isn't one of them.

Thank you everyone - she'll go with Spanish and Latin.

I know we're incredibly lucky to have the choice - and we're even luckier that the quality of the teaching isn't something she needs to think about - we know that it'll be good.

Has mumsnet really made her option choices? Tell me no, please.

Personally, I would have favoured Spanish and German.

I did Latin but in the world of work, I had to work in Germany. I did manage OK, because my colleagues spoke English. I tried to learn as an adult, but didn't get very far.

No, scienceteacher, mumsnet hasn't. She (and we0 had already made the choice, as you will seem from my OP. I was just using mumsnet as I would any other resource at my disposal to check if we had missed anything. Your input, as ever, gratefully received!

What a relief!

Actually, I was leaning towards Spanish and German too - but Latin is her absolute favourite subject - strange child that she is.

But GCSE and Y8 Latin are two different beasts. If she is really interested in Latin, I would suggest a taster session, or some research into exam specs and papers.

I would have chosen Latin and German personally. So much wonderful literature in German and it is not at all the harsh language that people in English speaking countries imagine it is. Learn German well and there is a HUGE wealth of culture (ie wisdom, beauty) there accessible to you but I suppose if you cannot use it to get a job, there is no point in it eh?

From university too, I remember that a lot of material I needed to read postgrad was in German, quite a bit in Italian too. Italian you can more or less deal with even if you cannot speak the language, German would be harder to guess at.

With knowledge of the classics, it seems to me either this is something you acquire at school or it is unlikely you will ever acquire it.

I do think at school we should learn things not solely for their perceived "usefulness" in the world of work. There is a huge amount you can learn from reading about the ancient world and reading what was written in those times. It is amazing sometimes how relevant or modern things can sound. People have not studied Latin and ancient history for generations because it was somehow "posh".

Wondering about Italy actually, whether every schoolchild there learns Latin?

What does DD want to do as a career?

Oh sorry didn't see you had already made your decision seeker.

If dd had to decide between 2 modern languages, I would let her listen to them both (via youtube or something) and see which she prefers the sound of and flick through a couple of travel books or something to see which of the two cultures she generally feels more attracted to. The more she likes it, the harder she will work at it, I'd imagine and it is possible to have cheap holidays in Spain so she could actually practice it easily enough.

FWIW I don't think many dc leave secondary truly fluent in modern languages. You learn them so much faster immersed in the language, spending a year in a country where they are spoken. If at all possible I think that is the way to go.

FWIW after the decision, my father made me take German and drop Latin (but then idiotic of the school to offer both and then after a year - at age 12 - force the choice) and while I went on to do a degree in German and don't regret doing it, in the wider scheme of things Latin would have been so much more useful in so many areas. And like someone already said, courses in German at all levels are two a penny, for all ages. the more I work (as a translator), the more I see what a handicap (for me, not for others, I realise) not having Latin is. Tis one of my dreams "for when the kids are a bit older and I have more time" ha ha

Spanish. Great language.

She has no idea what she wants to do for a career - and I am very opposed anyway to children of this age making ANY decision based on what they may or may not want to do for a career when they are adult. (Unless, I suppose, they were incredibly talented and driven in a particular direction) I think they should do subjects that interest them, or which are generally useful. I don't believe in narrowing choices if it can be avoided.

seeker - but please, please, please ensure she does as much Maths as possible.

English women are so crap at maths... . And it is so important.

There is NO CHANCE at all at my dd's incredibly old fashioned all girls school that she won't do tons of maths and science! Maths and 3 sciences and English are non-negotiable - so don't worry - they are only allowed to make choices at the margins!

Good .

My sister (who is 40) atttended a technical drawing course in London recently and was totally at the appalling mathematical skills of the other, mostly female, participants.

do you think girls learn maths better in other countries then Anna? Wondering why that would be really

Can't say I'm a glowing example myself, not having ever had the remotest interest in it but I could pass the tests and immediately forget it afterwards kind-of-thing. Is it so different elsewhere then?

I think the A-level system encourages all children to specialise in either arts or sciences too early. I think it is shocking that in England & Wales it is considered quite normal to drop the systematic study of mother tongue and mathematics at age 16. I think lots of quite clever and privileged girls who prefer Arts/Humanities drop maths very early in favour of English/History/Modern Languages and encounter difficulties down the line because of their very poor grasp of mathematics, which is (a) a particularly easy subject to forget (b) essential in the work place.

More schools are now doing IB which I guess goes some way to addressing this. Our local state school does it; I suspect more will follow.