DS has his heart set on a bad school

[MrsSnape]

Just before christmas, DS's school was visited by some pupils of a nearby secondary school (I assume 15-16 year olds) who played rock style christmas songs and told the little ones (well, year 5 and 6) how excellent their school is.

Apparantly all of these kids were emo/alternative types. DS being a big fan of the whole 'rock music', 'emo' scene came out of school in very high spirits and told me "Mum, I REALLY want to go to E "

The thing is, this school has a terrible name. Just the mere mention of it has most people exchanging concerned looks with each other. It has only been opened a few years (5 years I think) and has already been in special measures, threatened with closure, in the news for kids beating up teachers, terrible results etc...it was created by merging two failing schools.

(anyone from Hull will be now know which school I mean).

But there are no decent schools in this area, they're all like this and I have heard good things about the school recently, it is out of special measures, results are going up ... but it still has a name for itself and everytime i pass it, kids are sat outside smoking on the wall, eye-balling passers bys etc.

DS's best friend also has his heart on this school and chances are, his mum will be fine with him going there. It IS better than our actual catchment school.

Dilema - do I let him go, knowing how bad the school really is supposed to be?

Visit the school and the other possiblke schools with your son, so you both have something to compare it with. Have you been to any open evenings yet? Make sure your son knows that the other schools have emo pupils and rock bands too - see if you can dig up info about them. Look on school websites etc.

It's good your son is enthusiastic about ANY secondary school - that's a positive.

I doubt the school will have had to frogmarch those kids into your ds's primary schoo, and big up their school at gunpoint, though - it sounds like they do actually like it, and the fact that the school is doing some work in liaising with the primaries in a positive way like this is fairly encouraging I would have thought.

But the only way to really decide is to visit the schools available. I guesss you've missed the open evenings as they are usually Sept-Nov, but any school worth their salt will encourage visits from individuals. These type of visits are often better actually, as you'll get to see the school 'at work' and not just on best behaviour.

It is a positive because we have been worrying about this for years. There are no schools in the area with a GCSE passmark above 30% (well, there are but we have no chance of getting in them as they're hugely over-subscribed and don't even look at applications from kids out of catchment).

I did want him to go to an all boys school but its nea on impossible to get into and last night he told me he really didn't want to go. I said "why?" so he replied "its err ... Christian, I'm not Christian" I said "what's the real reason?" and he snapped "there is no girls there!"

But no, we've not been to any open nights yet, DS is in year 5, do you think I should start making appointments to see inside or wait until next year?

Sorry Oovavu, crossed post.

See I've heard of kids who go and absolutely love the school but then I've heard of kids who were so badly bullied there that they were suicidal! But I suppose that happens in all schools?

Our local comp is poorly regarded and has a 'reputation' - though never in special measures and much higher results than yours. We looked round it and made up our own minds and were very pleasantly surprised - it's really pulling itself up, children and staff very enthusiastic. It wasn't (and for the moment, won't) be our first choice though because there are far better schools locally in terms of academic performance - oversubscribed but can get in eventually through waiting lists or in Y8.

I wouldn't leave it till Y6. Try to get a few visits in and see what you think.

Is a waiting list of Y8 admission an option for you for the oversubscribed schools?

There can be bullying even in very "good" schools - there's one near me with a great pass rate and everyone wants to send their kids there, but I've heard of a lot of bullying which gets hushed up because it doesn't look good .

So, I think you should go to see the school and keep an open mind - it may be that it's reputation is actually fair, or it may seem very different when you see it for real. Some schools will have a low pass rate because of their intake, and a certain amount of smoking and "attitude", but that doesn't automatically mean that your son would do badly there or be bullied. Particularly if it's better than others in your area!

I'm not sure if the local schools do waiting lists? what would you do until year 8? home school?

muminscotland, I also know of a very highly regarded school (actually, the one that's very hard to get into if you're not in catchment) and almost everyone I've spoken to about it knows children who have been bullied there. Last year it was in the news about a girl from the school hanging herself (speculation that it was due to bullying).

This is the school DS wants to go to

www.endeavourhighschool.co.uk

They don't have the best intake, very run down area are but last year there were kids in the news having gained 7 a's in GCSE so it can be done.

I worry about my sons for different reasons. DS1 stands out which 'can' make him a target for bullying. However he's also very confident with himself and in the past couple of years, bullies have left him alone because they just can't get to him. He's also not a follower so I know he won't get into bother to make friends.

DS2 however is different, very loud, always eager to impress ...would DEFINATELY follow the bad crowd and could possible end up in a lot of trouble if he mixes with the wrong groups

Have a look around. Tackled the head re bullying when you go there. Do you know the head at all? A good head can make a huge difference. Ask parents of pupils actually at the school - don't listen to the grapevine. The grapevine likes to rely on hearsay and history. My DS's school is 'outstanding' and we are very happy with it, but until 6 yrs ago it had an appalling reputation for bullying and discipline and low academic results. So I stopped telling people where my son was going because they still thought of it as the same school that it was all that time ago .

It has a very deprived catchment and that brings the overall results down, but the teaching is good and that is what really matters.

Don't underrate his enthusiasm - it makes a big difference too.

Re bullying - our local 'good' school has no bullying policy because it has no bullies . Try telling that to some of the pupils who crashed out of that place because they were so badly bullied.

Mrs Snape - the LEA should have a central admissions system - if you don't get allocated your first choice school, you can then go on the Continuing Interest List for other schools. This is how my dd eventually got into her first choice school (only a matter of weeks before tem started)

Sorry, what I meant by Y 8 admission was:
If you still fail to get into the school you really want by the time Y7 starts, you can then still opt to go on waiting lists for individual schools (which are then controlled by schools rather than LEA - usually). My dd eventually got in to a highly oversubscribed school - but people still move etc and by end Y7/ start of Y8 there were 4 places available. All of which went to families either way outside area or who'd recently moved to area. Depends if you're willing to pull your child out of a school he/she will have settled into by then.

oops dont think I was very clear

I mean that you keep the place at whatever school you're offered, whilst remaining on waiting lists for other schools. Then if space crops up in Y7 or 8, you transfer your dc.

I think you should start visiting schools now - in my area there are only a few weeks between the open evenings and the closing date for applications so most people try to visit a few schools in Yr5 to get a feel for them. You really need to go to see them - it really changed my opinion of some schools. And if you are having to choose from a bunch of schools which are not great from an academic pov you will want to choose the one that suits your ds best in terms of speciality, pastoral care, etc

When ds1 was in yr3 we told him that we would listen to his views on secondary schools, but that ultimately we were the adults and he was the child, and we would consider all the evidence and in our wisdom make the best decision for his future education.

It's far too important a decision to be determined by a 9-10 yr-old child. When ds1 went to open evenings he was very impressed by the excitement of the science demonstrations and the quantity/quality of food on offer! He also had opinions on school uniforms, that's all.

You sound as though you're in a very tough position wrt choosing schools. Best of luck! ds1 is now in yr7 and settled, and I'm so pleased this is all behind us now.

In these circumstances I would use the Brian Clough strategy with DS.

Tell him that you understand his point of view; that he has many good argument; and that you will sit down to discuss it... and then tell the DS he'll go to the school which you think is best.

Why make parenting more difficult than it is by allowing your son the decision.

I do agree that it has to be ultimately your decision. However from what you've said it doesn't sound as if the school he favours is the worst option. But have a look at all available before you make up your mind.

Mrs Snape It says in the latest OFSTED that 39 % got 5 or more GCSEs at A-C.which for a school in a ' bad ' area isn't bad

Yes the results were quite decent this year and it is a school that seems to acknowledge the fact that they are up against the odds with most of their kids but they try very hard to turn things around for them.

I was talking to DS this morning and I've told him that I will still be putting down the good boys school as first option. Their pass rate is something like 89% so it would be silly not to at least give it a go.

Second choice will go to a school just on the outskirts of the city, a good school, close by (excellent bus route, from top of our street to school gates) with a good reputation. Out of catchment however so chances are slim.

He can choose his preffered school as option 3. To be honest, the chances of the other two schools are so slim, he will most likely get his choice but at least then I know I TRIED to get him into a better school.

Then we'll see how he goes. If he likes the school, gets on with his work and we're happy ... he can stay. If it turns out to be a huge mistake, I'll move him after year 7.

I had a scary thought last night...he starts secondary school NEXT YEAR! why do these things always seem so far away until all of a sudden, you realise it's just around the corner?