Are we letting DD down by not considering this school?

[castille]

DD started secondary in September - a state school with a bilingual section (we live in France and DH is French). The school is in a disadvantaged area of the city and we had reservations but so far so good. She seems quite happy and settled there and doing fine.

However, a private school in the city also has a bilingual section and I'm wondering if we're letting her down academically by not sending her there. It gets excellent results, and friends whose children are there are impressed with the bilingual section in particular. We ruled it out mainly because it's very catholic, very bourgeois (we are neither of these) and with a high snob factor. But it offers opportunities she doesn't have in her current school...

Would you consider it? It couldn't be more different from her current school!

No- I would leave her where she is as she sounds like she's doing just fine. A Catholic ethos will be not a particular advantage for a non-Catholic and the snobbery sounds horrible. I can't see the attraction in a change really. Would be different if she was unhappy and not getting good results but it sounds as if that's not the case at all.

How expensive is the private school?

I think from what you have said I would probably go for the private one if it was affordable.

Not expensive - the cost isn't a huge factor (though it's nice not paying!)

I might go to their open day, just to see. I can't see DH considering it though, his conviction that we are "doing the right thing" is stronger than mine!

I've just been talking to a friend whose sons are there, and now I'm having even more doubts

Oddly I'd feel as though we were letting her state school down by moving her. because we have no real problem with it. And yet...

Whatever you do don't consider the state school in your argument, your dd is the only person you must consider, if you feel the private school would be better for her, the move wouldn't affect her and th ecost isn't an issue then go for it.

good luck deciding!

What re the opportunities it offers, exactly? You haven't really said.

are

Where abouts in France are you?Do you think that your dd would prefer it or is it just that you are worried that you are denying her opportuneties

If it aint broke no need to fix it imo. What academic benefits do you think she's missing out on? The catholic thing might be quite irritating if you're not that way inclined I should think. But I'd still go & look around and think it through properly.

The international section seems more rigorous there and better adapted to native speakers (which her current school doesn't seem to be - there are too few of them). It also offers the foreign language she wants to do (Italian), and more musical and cultural activities which she is interested in.

I wouldn't be considering it if it wasn't for the international section to be honest, but we agree it is important for her to capitalise on her bilingualism.

DD wouldn't mind switching I don't think as she has friends from her primary school at the private one, but she's also happy to stay put. It's v hard to know in advance if the benefits would outweigh the downsides.

Why don't you ask your DD to visit the other school and make her own choice. She is old enough and will get a feel for it, especially if they let her shadow another pupil for a day.

If DH agrees it's worth a look (might be difficult) then I'll take her to the open day for starters. I agree she is old enough to have a say, but she might be too influenced by the prospect of being back with her old friends to make a decision based on academic criteria alone I fear.

But are the private schools better results down to their teaching or a more able intake ?

Both, I think. The school's reputation is demanding and academic and the social elite (and wannabes!) send their children there. But it also has a section for pupils who have fallen behind national requirements.

Wouldn't harm to go and have a look at it and see what exactly the school can offer in the way of facilities / opportunities that the present school doesn't.

I think after a good look round and a talk with the head perhaps, you should get a feel for the place.

I am atheist Anglican and DP is very liberal Jewish. We are both pretty anti-Catholic in a general sort of way and would always prefer secular education.

We have, however, contemplated Catholic schools for the DSSs - we rejected them because the schools didn't offer a better academic education than the state secular schools the boys were already at. I doubt, given that we are in Paris with lots of choice of bilingual schools, that we will ever need to send any of the children to a Catholic school. But I would always put academic opportunities first, if push came to shove.

DP's Jewish cousin has sent his four half-Jewish, half lapsed Catholic daughters to an all girls Catholic school in Neuilly. Now he has done it (18 months ago) he is very cross with himself for not having done so sooner.

It's not so much the catholic thing that bothers me - she, DD2 and DS all went/go/will go to a catholic primary - but the cliqueyness and snobbery. A friend of mine has taught there and was shocked at some of the prejudice she came across from other members of staff, as well as some parents and pupils.

Also it is possible that she may not respond well to too much academic pressure - she's bright but not excessively so and lacks a bit of confidence in her abilities. And the logistics of getting her to the private school would be pretty awful as it's on the other side of the city, so it would really have to be worth it.

But like your DP's cousin Anna, I don't want to have regrets, or let her down academically.

Heck these things are so difficult.

In the case of my DP's cousin, the family was forced into a decision when the eldest of their four daughters was in 3ème. They had jogged along with the local state schools (in Courbevoie) through primary and collège but knew that their local lycée was inadequate and their elder daughter not academic enough to get a place at a really good state lycée out of their catchment area. So they had to move her to a private school and the all girls Catholic option (in Neuilly-sur-Seine, which is on DP's cousin's way to work, so logistics aren't too awful) was the best for them at that fairly late stage. They moved all four girls at once and quickly realised that their elder daughter was going to have a major struggle to catch up with the much more demanding academic standards at the Catholic school versus her state collège. She has in fact had to repeat her seconde - it is not thought likely that any of the other girls will need to repeat a year as they moved to the more demanding school earlier in the system.

I know what you mean about the cliqueyness and snobbery of the French Catholic bourgeoisie that chooses Catholic schools. It is not something we like one little bit. There are some frighteningly retrograde Catholic schools in Paris, that we would always run a mile from - but there are also some excellent Catholic schools that are innovative, forward thinking and prepare children very well for the world beyond school.

Bilingual education is very well served by secular schools here, however.

Do you want your DD to do the Baccalauréat à Option Internationale Britannique?

Yes I do Anna and both schools offer the OIB at both brevet and bac (one British, one American, but the differences seem minimal).

I know the OIB is very demanding - a girl we know is taking it this year at the state lycee and is finding it tough despite being extremely bright and destined for Oxford if she gets the required moyenne - so I need to work out which school would give my DD the best chance of success given her strengths and weaknesses...

Why don't you ask the Lycée International de Saint-Germain en Laye for advice? Since it is the biggest centre for the OIB, gets excellent results and really knows its stuff - I'm sure they know their market inside out and have all the info about the other schools doing the OIB and which is the best bet for university admissions to the UK.

The woman who deals with admissions to the Section Britannique is called Sarah Grégoire and is very efficient - if you look at their website you will find her telephone number and email.

Just looked at their website and I want DD to go there! It sounds excellent.

But failing that I might take up your suggestion and pick their brains for info, though they might not know much about the schools in question, as both have only been accredited to offer the OIB this year. Thanks Anna.

We are going to visit the Lycée International de Saint-Germain-en-Laye later this spring - we are going to check out the lycée part for DSS1 (on a very outside chance he will be interested) which is really a pretext for me getting a good look around with a view to sending DD there for collège... It is definitely the place to go for OIB, and especially OIB Britannique.

I hope they are helpful for you - I have certainly found them very helpful so far.

"We are both pretty anti-Catholic in a general sort of way..."

bonsoiranna, can't let that go i'm afraid. what if i said, "i'm pretty anti-semitic in a general sort of way..." (i'm not btw).

heyho. it's not as though you could go much lower in my estimation anyway

Depends, Castile- if you're looking at getting her into Grande Ecole later, you have to be very careful about which lycee she goes to, as the classes prepa generally do not accept students from schools in poorer and deprived areas. If she is not aiming for GE, or you plan on sending her to university in the UK (which is what I and my siblings did), I would leave her where she is.