Calling all parents of Year 7 pupils ......

[lisalisa]

Have you/your child found it a big jump since primary school Year 6 in what they're actually learning and the depth and breadth and sophistication of it?

I'm actually referring to science here whcih staggers me. Dd1 is really really struggilng to the extent that she can't really attempt any of her homework without serious hlep. When helping her revise for a test today I was pretty shocked at what an 11 yr old is expected to master. For e.g. my dd has covered breeding, selective breedimg, DNA, charecteristics, inherited , variation, environmental factors, physcal environmental and general factors, adaptation etc.

I could not imagine being required to absorb that much when I was that age and I thought school curricula are these days accused of havimg gone soft.

Anyone else's child struggling having been considered above average at primary school and anyone else finding the jump in learning rather large?

I was staggered by the Y7 curriculum when dd1 started, not just by the content but by the depth and sophistication of it (north london selective state school). Far, far more than we did at that age. But she got the hang of homework quite quickly, I have been pretty hands-off with it tbh.

DD's found it a big jump in how she is supposed to catch up if off i.e. find someone to copy lesson notes from, find out what the homework is and do it. She's also found it quite challenging sometimes I think to move around from A to B to C.

Other than that she's not having a problem with the work itself. I think it's easy for everyone to forget though that six months ago they were 'babies' in Y6 and all of a sudden we're (parents, teachers) expecting an awful lot from them in terms of maturity. Similar with the move from infants to juniors, from Y11 to Y12, from Y13 to work/uni, to be honest.

I'm a science teacher, and it is a big jump from primary to secondary science. Which is why NC level s often go down at the beginning of Y7, because a KS3 level 5 is not equivalent to a KS2 level 5.

But it's early days yet. I do loads of practicals with my year 7 (which they love - definitely an improvement on primary school!) and we will get to grips with all the facts soon enough.

Dd1 is finding the opposite in some subjects. They are treading water in some areas.

Unfortunately she has rubbish science teachers, behaviour is poor and she isn't learning much.

However, if she had good science teachers, I think teh leap would be sizeable. Science at primary can be fairly variable due to obvious constraints.

DD1 is really enjoying secondary and not finding it too much of a stretch, but the science you describe your DD has having covered is much more complex than what she has done this term - she has done mostly chemistry and there has been a lot of practical work which she is loving. There is a lot of homework in some subjects, but very little in science and she has got 100% in all her tests so far.

Thank you all. I am relieved that others share this view and to hear from a science teacher is particularly interesting. Dd tells me that the other girls seem ok with the homeowrk but I then found out that her closest friend has a cousin 3 yrs older in Habs boys who has to help her and various others get help in other ways.

The work seems so genuinely diffiuclt - both to understand the concept talked about and the length of the subject and then to actually write lucidly about it.

Dd has big test tomorrow to place them in sets for science. I guess I must hope that she is in one of the lower sets as the pace so far is above her and me ( and I did all 3 sciences at O level ( as it was then) and gained A grades. I sure don't however remember this type of stuff b eing taught ).

other stuff that she has covered is food webs/primary tertiary consumer etc bu the main bit that staggered me was the breeding/genetics/DNA and how it travels and results in variations. this seemed more like to me GCSE work.

That was v interesting about stage 5s etc.

This is my first secondary school child and teh interim report dd got needed computre deciphering before being able to make any judgements as to whether she had done well/progressed etc. All her marks wer an avereage of level 3 or 4. does anyone know what this is to mean and whether it is on th eline for yr 7. is it correct thwt by gsce stage they should be at level 7 or 8?

It might help to get the Collins revision guide which has very clear explanations.
At DS's school they teach each section upto Level 6/7 in yr 7 for top set and now DS is yr 8 he has started to cover GCSE work.
But DS's school Yr 7 set from the first day .

One thing I noticed when dd needed some help recently was how poorly written the textbook was. You would think a science book would be written in a factual, non-ambiguous way but I had to check quite a few things on the internet for her so she could answer the questions as the textbook just hinted/inferred what the answer was...

I hadn't really thought about it, but I guess yes, I do agree there is a big jump in terms of the breadth and depth of subjects studied.

At ds1's school they teach all subjects mixed ability in yr7, whereas in yr6 he was in sets for literacy and numeracy. So children from lower sets may be being exposed to the teaching that is designed also to challenge the high achievers, as well as to support the weaker ones.

The levels should be comparable to the KS2 levels from primary school, though as TheFallenMadonna says some students do drop half a level or so in yr7 when the adjust to secondary methods of levelling.

National standards are that most children should achieve at least L4 at the end of yr6, and at least L5 in yr9. (But many schools set a target of L6 minimum in yr9.)

If you feel that she is really struggling, I would phone the school and ask to make an appointment with a form tutor or something.

Did the interim report give any measure of progress, and whether they are happy with it? Or is it just grades?

PS There are quite a few new yr7 parents on mn and we have a thread here if you want to join in the general chat, worrying and agonising over the tiniest of things!

Dd has found the maths a bit of a letdown from her (state) junior school where they were doing Year 8 and 9 stuff in top set during Year 6 (very keen maths teacher); in secondary school, it seems a lot more basic. Other than that, it is different but not too hard. In her case, it's mainly a question of learning to plan her work, so you do a bit on a project every week.

We haven't had levels or targets for DD1 yet; she has had a monitoring report which graded her on both effort and achievement, but no actual levels. Do I take it most other Y7 children have had this by now?

Thank you all very much and roisin Iwill join that thread.

Christywhisty -I have bought that book now- thank you for the link.

Dd1 says that science test went quite well .

So -in terms of levels, if L3 is below standard and they are expected to reach L4 in Yr 6 and Level 5 in year 9 what are they expected to reach in Yr 7. I am waiting for this answer with bated breath as I presume it must be L4-5 ( with the assumption that the kids more or less stay then on levels 4-5 till year 9. I had thought it went up to level 8 or 9.

It is just so confusing. Someone please explain what level they are expected to be on in each year?

Each child is different and will make progress at their own rate. At this age it isn't very helpful to have 'average' targets. In my yr7 we have students with a current level in English ranging from below level 3 to level 6+: they're all different and the important thing is that they make progress individually from the point they are currently at.

Each NC level can be split into 3 sub-levels - 4c, 4b, 4a (a is the highest).

At school for most of our students in most subjects we set them a target of 2 sub-levels per year.

So a child coming in on a 4c would have a target of 4a by the end of yr7, a child on 5a would have a target of 6b.

But these are adjusted if appropriate. For students getting below L4 in English at KS2 we usually set a target of 1 sub-level only; e.g. KS2 L3b -> end of yr7 target L3a.

Roisin - thank you. 7?

So is L6 the highest that you have in Yr 7 then?

What level are they expected to reach by end of yr 9 > Is it two sublevels every year ( thank you for that explanation btw). What level are they expected to be on to pass a gcse?

As you are a yr 7 teacher I wonder if yo'd mind if i ask you a further question? My dd lacks confidence in her ability to problem solve and complete tasks. I have always been good at tuition adn explaining and have an english degree and a law degree. I've taken it upon myself to go through her homework with her alsmot every night to see that she understands the task at hand before she attempts it and to guide her in teh best way of attempting it. I'm wondering wehther that is appreciated by a teacher or plain wrong. For e.g. tonight dd had to write a story incorporating various elements. I encouraged her to write a brief plan first and tehn to flesh it out. i brought her gently back on track when she veered off the track or used inappropriate language i.e. colloquilisms ( sp -sorry ) . I also ecnouraged her to write more creatively - to try to incorporate one metaphor or similie and explained and explored some with her.
is this too much intereference? Might I be doing by damage by not leaving her to muddle through therevby exposing her weaknesses etc or can this only help?

This really is so complex. I'm not actually a teacher, I'm a cover supervisor, but do a lot of work on assessment so I understand how it works - well in my school anyway!

Levels can, and do, vary hugely. In my school we have yr7s with current literacy levels varying from B (below L2) to L6. In subjects like maths and science you can have yr7s working at L7 or even L8.

But this can be misleading, especially in Science. A student may be working at L8 in their current topic, but this doesn't mean they could necessarily do formal exams early, as they won't have covered the curriculum topics yet. Though they may have the potential to do so.

At my school we don't really use NC levels in KS4, but rather talk about predicted and target GCSE grades (A*-G).

Typical routes of good progression at my school (for core subjects like Maths/English/Science) might be as follows:
yr6 -> yr7 -> yr8 -> yr9 -> yr11
L4a -> L5b -> L6c -> L6a -> A
L4c -> L4a -> L5c -> L5b -> C
L3b -> L3a -> L4c -> L4b -> ?

Students vary a lot, but this sort of thing should give you some idea as to what might be expected. Other schools may have steeper targets/achievement than us.

I think students benefit enormously if parents are interested and supportive in what they study, and with homework, but it is possible to be too hands-on. At this stage they do need to start learning how to work independently and organise themselves.

Of course how much support they need does depend on what level they are working on. With ds1 (literacy L5a from primary, current working level L6c) on English homework I would:
a) Say "Come on, it's time you got this English homework done" and direct him to the table where he works.
b) Look at his planner/homework sheet with him and ask him to explain the task to me to make sure he's clear. If necessary I might help him decide how he needs to approach a task/what stages he needs to work through, but usually I'm pretty hands-off and would just leave him to it.
c) Remind him to do a plan first, to write in paragraphs, and include the elements as instructed.
I would then leave him to it, and would rarely make any suggestions to him to amend the work when completed.

HTH

Thanks roisin . Re your second posdt , you do the same as me up to c) . Your ds is workikng to a higher level than my dd hence you probably don't feel a need to suggest amendments to his work ( whcih is probalby bascailly ok even if you feel you cold imrove it). My dd has quite poor spelling and grammar and I don't feel she woujld benefit by giving in her first draft sometimes and also think it can't hurt for me to go through the grammar with her ( sort of like an extra tutorial).

Thanmks for all your hlep on this.

christywhisty - book arrived and is fab. Helpig dd revise for second stage of sceince assess,ents so thanks.

I am in scotland and our kids do not start secondary until they are 12- they do yr 7 at primary (primary7).
I had a chance to move to England, but won't as I do not like the education system.