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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Pros/Cons of Grammar/High Achieving Comprehensive

45 replies

babyboo1and2 · 25/10/2008 19:20

have to state preferences for mon to local autority

local comp is a hell hole

ds is bright and have also had him tutored so he wasnt at a disadvantage compared with the others

cant decide which to put first on CAF grammar or a high achieving comp which we arent in the catchment for but which reserves places for out of catchment (based on entrance test)

grammar is further away (40 min train)and single sex, intake of 120

HA comp is nearer (20 min train)and mixed sex, sets in all subjects, intake of nearly 300

of course all this may be of no concern as son may not get in at all as competition is so fierce but assuming he does well....

just trying to make the right choice for ds

any advice, wise words from experience etc etc welcome

OP posts:

MrsGhost · 25/10/2008 20:58

You can put three choices, so put down both. But, if your son passes the 11+ you can appeal to any Grammar regardless of wether you have put them on your list or not.
DD is 14. When we had to choose secondary schools I put a Comp follwed by two of the three Grammars in our area. DD passed her 11+ and was offered the Comp (as we had put it first choice) DD, informed me that she had passed for Grammar and wanted to go there, so sort it out. (well not actually them words, but that sentiment) So I appealed to the two I had put on the form from education as well as the third Grammar (Which I hadn't put on the form). DD was offered a place in ALL three Grammars in the end, so its possible to appeal.

fizzbuzz · 25/10/2008 21:05

I thought it was against the law for state comprehensives to use selection (eg tests), in fact I'm sure it is.

I teach in a huge high achieving comp...mixed sex is better ime, and more kids means (usually) a more varied curriculum, and 40 mins on a dark night is quite a lot for a student

MrsGhost · 25/10/2008 21:58

Yeah dd did choose a grammar in the end (well she had been offered 4 schools so we told her it was her choice) she went to the mixed Grammar

Original poster

babyboo1and2 · 25/10/2008 22:02

Im in essex so have four choices so far have chosen

choice 1 - grammar (40 min journey)
choice 2 - HA comp (20 min journey)
choice 3 - local comp (but told out of catchment)
choice 4 - grammar (huge distance, would be gutted if it came to this)

fizzbuzz - it says comp in its brochure so i assume its just a a state comp - a friend lives in its catchment area and says all locals are taken

dont really understand catchment system as choice 3 is the nearest comp in our area to us (around 3 miles) but we have been told we are in catchment area of another comp about 5 miles away - obvously they dont like our estate!

i really like the idea of a small school and not really bothered about single sex, dh feels life involves both sexes so school should be like this too,

also thinking about ds and being near friends as he gets to teenage years,

have never felt so confused

OP posts:

MrsGhost · 25/10/2008 22:03

Whats a HA comp?

Heated · 25/10/2008 22:04

Surely going to the grammar is if they make the cut off, & not if they are listed preferentially? So in that case put the HA comp 1st.

MrsGhost · 25/10/2008 22:04

Sorry I know what a HA comp is, I meant whats a CAF grammar

Original poster

babyboo1and2 · 25/10/2008 22:05

forgot to add i did CAF online so can change order etc

mrs ghost - i didnt know you could appeal to grammar schools at all

OP posts:

Original poster

babyboo1and2 · 25/10/2008 22:06

CAF - commom application form ie i send mine to essex

OP posts:

Heated · 25/10/2008 22:06

yes grammar have appeals

southeastalien · 25/10/2008 22:06

my ds(15) is 'bright' and goes to the local 'hell hole'

he is scoring straight As in maths this year

RottenOtter · 25/10/2008 22:09

we live in area with very high achieving comp BUT send ours out of area to grammars

errr

difficult one

with a BOY i would say grammar everytime

in my experience 'all girls' schools are maybe not the best environment in which case comp maybe better

Original poster

babyboo1and2 · 25/10/2008 22:12

its not the academic side of things i am particulary concerned about - i am pretty sure ds would do well in just about any school i just want him to fit in with others around him where working hard/good behaviour etc is standard

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Original poster

babyboo1and2 · 25/10/2008 22:13

Rotenotter

how do they cope with travelling/ not local to friends etc

why especially grammars with a boy ?

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RottenOtter · 25/10/2008 22:25

babyboo agree with you about academic thing

without wanting to be soundly thrashed .......I can honestly say the grammar school values - hard work - good manners - good work ethic have made us feel very very lucky

we now have two boys in one grammar and the strong boudaries - no nonsense attitude is making them lovely young men

EVERYONE works - so as parents the burden on us the enforce homework etc is minimal

re the girl thing - our daughter is at a grammar school but it is much more lax and free and easy
behaviour at the school is awful and althought they turn out amazing results i am not sure the overall 'gir'l is half as sweet as the boys in the school next door

Original poster

babyboo1and2 · 25/10/2008 22:44

thanks for responses so far

very interesting getting your views

keep them coming

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southeastalien · 25/10/2008 22:52

my son's school have good values too, but then again he is naturally a well behaved and motivated boy

maybe a private school would help those who aren't as able

Quattrocento · 25/10/2008 22:57

In our area, there are no high-achieving comps. Do such things exist? Not being sarky, genuinely curious. How do you define this HA comp?

My DD is in year 6. The choices for her are an independent school or a state grammar.

The thing that attracts me about the state grammar is the prospect of being educated alongside bright children. There are no children with ASBOs (I asked, and believe you me this is a pertinent question). Our state grammar is rated outstanding on every metric by Ofsted but still seems a bit mediocre frankly. But you know, it's okay.

In your position I'd opt for the state grammar although the travelling sounds a bit dubious.

lilolilmanchester · 25/10/2008 23:02

Hi Babyboo, feel for you, we are going through secondary admission hell too. Our LEA has finally come to its senses and decided not to inform schools which order of preference they have been listed in. So regardless of which order we put it in, the school won't know. Which won't help you,and my experiences will be useless to you unless we're in the same area. Can understand if you don't want to say, I'm happy to say I'm in Trafford, should that help you or anyone else on here.

Original poster

babyboo1and2 · 25/10/2008 23:11

quattrocento - government awards HA status according to consistent results (I think)

southeastalien - if your comment is directed to me i didnt say the local comp didnt have good values, i work as a teacher in the primary state sector and in 16 years teaching have not worked with a teacher who, in my opinion, didnt hold good values - but i have seen many 'good' children go to 'not so good' schools and not reach the potential i felt they had, at the same time there were plenty of children who did amazingly well at these same schools (and i am not just referring to academic potential)

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Original poster

babyboo1and2 · 25/10/2008 23:15

Lilolilmanchester - my region also doesnt inform schools the order of preference, i cant imagine how difficult it must have been for parents wishing to select schools but being told they had to be given firt preference in order to be considered

perhaps we need to start up a mn support group for secondary applications!

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lilolilmanchester · 25/10/2008 23:20

we have either grammar or high school in our area. DS is at Grammar School, right school for him, a comp wouldn't get the best out of him. OTOH, awaiting results for DD who would be fine at grammar, but unlikely to pass. She'd do better at a comp but both systems don't co-exist here. So am doubly oos can see benefits of different systems for different children.

MrsGhost · 25/10/2008 23:23

Babyboo, dd is 14 in yr 9. And we appealed 3 years ago. I knew that if your child had passed the 11+ that you could appeal to any grammar schools on you CAF, but I found out quite be accident that if your child has passed their 11+ that you can appeal to grammar (or indeed any other school) which you hadn't put on your CAF, so I just did it. She had been offered the comp, as I had put it on the list, then threw a strop, so I appealed to the two other grammars. She got offered a place in both in the space of a week, then I heard that I could appeal for the other grammar. So I did, she got offered a place a the third (non CAF listed school) three days before the start of yr 7. She was lucky, I think with it was probably was a fluke. BUT, after me telling the above story to a friend the following year. She did the exact same thing and got offered a place in the school she hadn't registered on her CAF form for her dd who had also passed her 11+.
I can't believe I didn't click what CAF was

twinsetofcocks · 25/10/2008 23:33

quattro of course there is high achievement going on in comps. It may not be in every class as being comprehensive all ability ranges will be there. I have a GCSE class where I am expecting every student bar 2 to get an A* and the remaining 2 will get an A.

Original poster

babyboo1and2 · 25/10/2008 23:34

no one seems to have issues with travelling so far - i assume everyone lives closer to their choice of school

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