How should we order our secondary school preferences?

[CoralLemur]

This is long… but I want to include all relevant information rather than drip feeding.
I am currently trying to complete my DDs secondary school CAF and I am probably overthinking the order but I would like some outside perspective. DD currently goes to a small private religious prep school where most of her year will go to the local religious state secondary. She was previously at a 1 form village state primary, most of her friends from there will be going to the local school. At school she currently loves Spanish and Art. We can put down a maximum of 6 schools and we have visited 4. There are other schools within 10 miles however none have higher results than school 2 and most are as hard to get to on public transport if not worse than school 2 as well.

School 1 – Grammar
English and Maths 5+ - 100%
Attainment 8 – 80
Average No. of qualifications – 10
Distance 15 miles - 1 hour (30 minutes train, 30 minutes walk)
PAN – 190
We are still waiting on DDs 11+ results which we expect to be a pass; however admissions are based on score, and we are not sure if her score will be enough. This has been DDs first choice since her visit. She loved the facilities and the subjects on offer especially as they have Spanish.

School 2 – Unlikely admission
English and Maths 5+ - 50%
Attainment 8 – 50
Average No. of qualifications – 8
Distance 10 miles - 1 hour (2 buses – connection may not work on the way home which would require us to collect her)
PAN – 190
We may not get in; for 2026 the school admitted above their PAN which we would have led us to be admitted but in previous years the distance was 6 miles. DD liked this school more than 3 and 4 but only just. This school has more variety of qualifications such as Dance, Spanish, German and Media Studies. Students study 2 languages in year 7 and 8. I really liked the school; the pupils were very friendly and happy to talk about their experiences despite only being year 7s. I maybe biased as this was my old school!

School 3 – Religious
English and Maths 5+ - 60%
Attainment 8 – 55
Average No. of qualifications – 9
Distance 15 miles - 1 hour (30 minutes train, 30 minutes walk)
PAN – 190
We would get in based on religion and this is where most of her class will go. It is a good school and we got a good feel, however, the number of subjects at GCSE are limited especially as they only do French and children have to take RE at GCSE.

School 4 – Local
English and Maths 5+ - 30%
Attainment 8 – 37
Average No. of qualifications – 7
Distance 2 miles – 10 Minutes (school bus due to no footpaths)
PAN – 300 (reduced from 330 in previous years)
This has been undersubscribed for a number of years and will be the school where most of her friends from her previous school will go to. This school is currently repairing its reputation and is split over 2 sites. The open evening was chaotic; there were no students showing people around and the students that were around were not interested in talking to people. All I got from the Headteachers talk was that their 2025-26 had improved (the only figure mentioned was English and Maths 4+ was 60%). They also kept saying the results were one of the best in the local area and they are full in all but 1 year group.

DHs opinion is that schools 2 and 3 should be switched as the results are better at school 3. Should we also put 3 above 2 as she will know people her rather than school 2 where she will probably be the only one from either primary school? School 2 is also better to get to on public transport so she can easily stay for after school clubs.
Schools 1-3 will do separate sciences for those who are able without having to have it as an option like school 4 and they also choose GCSEs at the end of year 8.
We also have DS who will be a higher criteria in school 2 and 4 if DD is there.
I have tours next week at school 2 and 3 during the day. What should I look out for / ask?

Up until a couple of years ago the grammar was a super selective with no priority area. In the local area there was a feeling that it was too unobtainable to even try. Those that could went private although the nearest private secondary schools take 1 hour 20 on school coaches.

As I've mentioned in a previous post high attainers in school 4 got 61 in 23/24 (15% were classed as high attainers). When we moved 12 years ago school 4 was rated outstanding and had a similar reputation to school 2.

We don't need dance and media studies but DD would like Spanish which is only available to Year 7s at schools 1 and 2. School 2 also does photography if she decided to go that way with her art.

I could just about do the school run most morning to school 2 as it starts early and I would be back home to start work. However, this would rely on DH being home to do DS school run. DH generally works from home but he works away for about a week at a time every 2-3 months. Work does not like us doing afternoon school runs consistently; one offs are okay. The afternoon school run would also clash with DS.
We are seeing some evidence if low birth year's but we are also seeing a lot of new builds and people moving to the area.

I am not looking at A level results as only schools 1 and 4 have a sixth form. Most in the area go to a large sixth form college about 45 minutes away by bus or train (with walking).

I wouldn’t let the availability of Spanish be a deciding factor. MFL is in such a parlous state nationally that it would only take one or two teachers leaving in most state schools to necessitate removing a whole language from the curriculum. If she’s really keen then consider taking it up as an extra curricular.

@CoralLemur My dd did photography A level and got A star. You absolutely don’t need it at GCSE.

I think MFLs do matter but that’s because my DD1 did 2 at A level and it’s a shame to see academic subjects sidelined and too many state schools simply don’t care. Extra curricular is not helpful with the travelling distances.

You seem a long way from just about everywhere. Your 6th form is distant too! I think you need to be confident about subjects offered, ethos of school, distance to travel and quality of education. The core curriculum is more important than extra subjects not normally studied at GCSE. Does dd value being with friends? My DDs both started senior school knowing no-one.

I would not want a super strict school and realistically you might not get the grammar or the one you live too far from. Do a spreadsheet and weight strangest of the other two.

Those first three schools are all horrible commutes (30 min walk + 30 min train will need DD to allow more than an hour). Have you tried them in the morning rush hour to see what they are actually like in practice?

I'd go back and look at School 4 again. I think a school on the up could be a good bet and in that situation the results aren't that meaningful, as they will represent students who had little time in an improved school.

I agree with the person who said not to make Spanish a deciding point - schools can and do change subject choices all the time.

Unfortunately the long commutes are something we deal with when we decided / love to live in a rural location.

I can go back and look at school 4.
What things should I look out for?
What should I ask?

The Head already mentioned their exam results are improving but it was all focused on 4+ results. There was no mention of 5+ or their attainment 8 average.

I think if you chose to live that far away, you (as parents) need to make your child's life easier. Therefore if 2 is somewhere you could drop off, that might be better.

I really feel for your children with 2 hours a day of school travel.

Ask how they challenge high achievers. Whether they are in Sets for any subjects, or is it mixed ability. Gcse options.

They set for Maths, English, science, history and geography. However out of 10-11 classes there is 1 top and 1 bottom with all the others mixed ability.

For GCSEs they choose a total of 9 including English lang and lit, combined science, maths, history or geography and 3 options. However from review of Dfe website very few actually take all 9. The 23/24 data shows the high prior attainers took an average of 8 with the overall average being 7.
After history and geography there are 18 subjects to choose from. This includes Spanish, German and French but I have already been told 2027 entry will only learn German. The only art subjects are art, photography and music. There is also PE and sport studies. They do Philosophy and ethics rather than RE. If you want triple science this has to be taken as an option.

@CoralLemur But it’s not you dealing with it is it? It’s your 11 year old dc who you have disadvantaged. The commutes are awful. Your work comes first in your house but your dc are being asked to do a lot of travelling because of your decisions. I think you need to work out how you get them to school or choose the near one.

Very odd for a school to just teach German. Bizarre in fact. So few teachers available.

I think you should look at the sixth form offer and attainment in schools 1 & 4. Also, leaver destinations. If your daughter attended school 3 (RC) for 11-16, do you envisage preferring the grammar (option 1) or the local sixth form college for post 16? When was each school last inspected by Ofsted and what were the outcomes?

When you go and tour during the day look for calm classrooms. Not necessarily silent, but calm and purposeful. No one talking over each other or the teacher. Look for children out of lessons, wondering the corridors. Lots of internal truancy is a big red flag. I teach a lot of mixed classes and it’s totally fine, don’t let that put you off, but ask if they use a mastery approach (teach to the top and adapt to support where necessary). Ask about their behaviour policy.

Mastery is teaching in a uniform way but extending learning to ensure deep development and understanding. It doesn’t start by teaching to the top performers. It extends them beyond the lesson by extension tasks while others are supported so they develop their more basic understanding. A parent seeing a class would have no idea of this.

I have done some research on this today.
School 1 - Per DfE 130 in year 13 all doing at least 1 level 3 academic qualifcation gaining an average A level result of A-. The destination on DfE seem to be 2023 states 75% went to university. Per the current prospectus last year 95% went to university, 60% were Russell Group universities. There is mention of students getting into Oxbridge but no figures.
There are 20 subjects available mainly academic such as languages, Philosophy & ethics, sciences and further maths.

School 4 - Per DfE 90 in year 13 only 50 doing at least 1 level 3 academic qualifcation gaining an average A level result of C-. The destination on DfE seem to be 2023 states 25% went to university. There is nothing in the prospectus about destinations.

There are 20 subjects available almost half are BTECs.

I don't know where I expect DD to go to for sixth form. It will depend on her and what she wants to do. As you can see school 1 is more academic and it will have more of a school feel as although there is no uniform there is a dress code (i.e. suit). The local sixth form is big (3000+ total students) with no dress code and over 40 subjects some with multiple syllabuses to choose from. It is also in the city centre! There is less of a leap between this and university.

As for Ofsted there is nothing really between schools 2-4.
School 1 - 2024 - Outstanding in all areas
School 2 - 2025 - Good in all areas
School 3 - 2023 - Good in all areas
School 4 - 2024 - Good in all areas

That sixth form information basically tells you about the school offer and intake.

School 1 is a grammar - it will have high entry criteria and probably only offer A Levels (maybe small number of other quals). No surprise it gets high results and lots go to university

School 4 sounds like it offers more vocational qualifications, and has a lower ability intake. No surprise about results and destionations.

I agree with you, that I would not consider these at all. They relate to children nearly 10 years older than your DC. Schools change a lot.

You can’t really compare school 1 and 4. They’re totally different. You would expect school 1 to score much more highly by the very nature of their intake. If you cherry pick the most able you should be getting the best results otherwise something has gone very wrong.

Thank you everyonr for your help.

DD did not pass her 11+ so school 1 is out, however, I have now managed to visit schools 2-4 during the day. This has confirmed our order as the unlikely admission first followed by the religious school.

School 2 the tour was taken by the deputy head who was very forthcoming with information (without being asked) such as specific examples of how he teaches mixed ability classes and their toilet policy (they can go during class no questions asked but it is noted on the computer to monitor patterns). We were also there during lesson change over.

School 3 was led by the Chaplain who was 10 minutes late. He showed us were certain subjects were but trying to get answers to teaching questions was difficult.

School 4 was led by the Head of the lower school (due to split site). Year 7s are kept seperate at break and have a different lunchtime to the rest of the school. Most of the classes were working in complete silence which they have apparently just instigated. He also focused on SEN provision and nothing at the higher end. He also couldn't tell me what their reading scheme/policy (e.g. Sparx or accelerated reader) was or would be just it was under review. He also mentioned his child goes to school 2 as it is closer to where he lives!