Maths A level dilemma - advice needed

[AMatterOfInfiniteHope]

Looking for some advice. In previous years I’ve seen posts about only taking a level maths if you’re one of the top students.

DD really not sure what A Levels to take. Around the time of the time of the GCSE’s she started to think she’d like to take maths A level. She’s not been keen before.

She started secondary school with a target/predicted grade of a 4, but has worked incredibly hard and her teacher in year 11 has said she should be aiming for a 7 or 8. Mock exams were usually a 7 or 8. I still think there’s a chance she’ll come out with a 6; she thinks the exams were very hard but reckons no one else did, so also thinks it might be a 6. ( I will advise against maths if that’s the case).

She was very cross with herself for not answering all the questions on one of the papers and I have a theory that she only wants to do A level so she can prove to herself (and others) that she can do it. When she was in KS3 she was convinced her lower set classes (she was in the lowest sets at first) had already been written off and she was upset at the injustice of it all. Her teacher thinks she has the mindset for the A level because she works so hard. I’m not so sure.

7 or 8 is good. That could be A or B at alevel. However teachedds can encourage you onto inappropriare alevels. I did maths and chemistry. When i was never into chemistry. So went from Bs at gcse to c in maths and D in chemistry.

Is she likely to do better than 7-8 in other subjects?

To get a 4 predicted she must have got only about 100 on ks2 sats

Targets are usually set from ks2 sats and they’re not overly reliable at the individual level.

it is a significant step up. GCSE grades of 9 ir 8 are absolutely fine. Most places will take 7s.

i wouldn’t do it from a 6.

and either way, if her motivation is to prove a teacher wrong maybe not such a good idea

I have a child who did maths A level and another who I would be wary of taking maths.

The first got a 9. The second is predicted 8/9. Why would I discourage child 2?

The difference is their conceptual grasp of "mathematics", and I don't just mean the curriculum.

My second child is "good at" maths. As in good at responding to teaching and learning processes, good at remembering the processes and applying them correctly.

My first child understands maths. They didn't have to learn their tables because they could "see" the answer. Whilst they have needed to learn processes, they don't "remember" them; they sort of 'perceive' them at a much deeper level and much more fully. They talk of maths as being like a language that you develop fluency in.

I think you can do very well at GCSE as the first type of mathematician, but I think you need to be the second type to do really well at A level.

My DS got a 6 at GCSE but his sixth form allowed him to do Alevel and initially reviewed it. He has just got an A and only a few points off A*. They did say this is unusual but people do move at different rates and if they are driven and put the effort in then that is what counts.

What's she like at algebra?

Our school only lets you take maths A level if you get a 7, but if you only get a 7 you have to have a 4th A level and they review it part way through the first year so if you have to drop you still have 3 A levels. We have the same concerns with DS, we are getting him a tutor to help him as he’s keen on engineering as future career path.

Didn’t do SATS because of Covid but in practice SATS she never got close to a 100. They tested them in year 7 (I’m assuming something similar to SATS) and that’s where the grade 4 came from.

RheneasAndSkarloey

that is a helpful insight. I’m not sure what sort of mathematician she is, however when she was struggling with it at primary school she always said it was like a language she couldn’t understand.

She’s good at algebra and actually she stated to enjoy maths once they really got into algebra. She doesn’t like probability.

Has she done the bridging work for maths A level? Many places appear to set bridging work and do tests on algebra soon after the start of term.

No bridging work - tho I’ve found a bridging pack online today.

She went in for 6th form induction days but didn’t attend the maths sessions because when she applied for 6th form she put down other A level choices. In fact I think she’s discounted 3 of her original choices.

This. I had 2 who did further maths. They did hardly any revision, because they just understood it. If maths is hard for you at 16 (and you got a 6) you will struggle at 18. Even with maths, not further maths x

Im.not trying to put her off, but the three things I would think about are:
*An A or a B is unlikely from a 7 and very unlikely from a 6. A lower grade isnt a disaster and may enable her next steps, but she should be realistic about likely grade outcomes. You can get tables showing what proportions get what A level grades from different GCSE grades.
*Why does she want to do A level maths? To access a specific course like engineering? If she has her heart set on something that requires maths it could be worth it even if she likely to get a C. I think she needs to think about her underlying motivations. Interest? Opening up careers options?
*How are her other subjects? Are maths and science relative strengths or is she stronger at other areas?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.cambridgeassessment.org.uk/Images/674348-progression-from-gcse-to-a-level-2018-2020.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjFsfidrp6WAxWjVkEAHbuQFWYQFnoECEkQAQ&sqi=2&usg=AOvVaw0OpAMFWGocbc5qKpFolddq

Sorry link failed - was trying to link grade progression stats.

This isn't the most up to date data but it gives you the idea - if you get a 6 at GCSE, your most likely outcome at A-level is an D/E if you make it to the end of the course. If you get a 7, your most likely outcome is a C/D and an 8 is more likely A/B,

Obviously there are people who do better than this, and do worse but it is definitely useful to know in advance if you need top grades for your ideal uni and you don't need maths, then don't take maths if you only got a 7.

One thing I noticed is that you said she is a hard worker - if her grade 7 is hard fought for then she is more likely to struggle than a kid who did not work extremely hard for their 7, who maybe had a crap teacher or something like that, whose natural ability might sit a bit higher.

Lots to take into consideration. However, maths is the most popular A-level, loads of kids take it. It's definitely not just for the most able mathematicians who can do maths in their sleep.

Maybe I was a bit pessimistic - an A or B is quite possible from a 7. However, a C or below is more likely.

I cross -posted with @noblegiraffe If my image loads it if from a report 'Progression from GCSE to A Level, 2018 – 2020' . You can get the full thing if you google similarish stats.

Depends if she would possibly be relying on getting a A/B for Uni place?

DD got 9’s in Maths and Further Maths at GCSE and got A (Maths) and B (Further Maths) in A levels today.

If she’s predicted 7/8 at GCSE Maths and hasn’t done Further Maths GCSE an A/B isn’t impossible but it will be hard work.

If she enjoys it then she should go for it, but she needs to be fully prepared for it to be an uphill slog.

@noblegiraffe that is so useful and interesting. Anyone know if a C in maths is useful. Sorry weird question. My son likely isn’t going to go to uni, he’s mostly interested in apprenticeships or military, he’s interested in engineering and likes maths so that’s why it’s a potential A level despite not being a grade 8/9 student (though he will try for an 8, 7 more likely currently).

Just wondering if a C in maths is more valuable (or at least the same) than say a B or A in a topic he might be stronger at but might be ‘softer’?

My son (17) always struggled with maths - hes not a natural. He got a 8 for gcses and has taken it for A level because he wants to do computer science at university.

If he didn't need it he would definitely avoid it like the plague but he is struggling and predicted B at the moment. (He's needs A).

If I was you, I would persuade her not to take it if she isnt a natural and only wants to do it to make a point.

What does she want to do, university/career wise?

I would suggest that if he's interested in engineering, then maths would possibly open up more doors at a C than say, business studies at a B, as engineering is mathsy, and also demonstrates the sorts of problem-solving skills that they look for.

I would say a 7 or above is needed ideally to do A level maths, unless they get a 6 which is lower than predicted and just had a bad time on the day/with the particular paper taken.
In my experience people who do A level maths either love maths or find it very easy, or both!

Would be a good idea to see what her teacher thinks when results come out.

Thank you, funnily enough business would likely be the alternative (with history and D&T as the other topics with likely higher predictions) so that’s really useful.

Thanks so much for all the information. It’s all very helpful. I’m minded that maths is not the best choice. She loves it. She relishes the challenge of it and enjoyed working through questions, however i don’t think it comes easy to her.

She’s very good at English and that does come easy … I’m pretty sure she will take that. Good at history too but not so keen on taking it further. For a long time she wanted to carry on with art but she said other day that gcse art had sucked all the joy out of life! So that’s not going to happen.

Her latest idea is to study linguistics possibly with a language. A lot will depend on results next week.