Would you encourage Year 10 daughter to move to top English set?

[SereneFinch]

DD is at the end of Year 10. Her English teacher was impressed (his words) with her mock result and has suggested she move up to the top set. They obviously work at a higher level and it will stretch her to achieve a better grade in a subject that she wants to do for A level. Her mock result was two grades higher than some of the kids in the top set so she is definitely capable.

However, she doesn’t want to move. She loves her English teacher and classmates (which is presumably a factor in why she is doing so well). The teachers of the top set (job share) she had before when she was lower down the school and didn’t enjoy their style so much. She is also a bit self conscious and I know will hate to be the ‘new’ kid in the top set.

I’ve said to her that I would encourage her to move but it is her decision. DH and the English teacher think she needs to be persuaded to move.

What would you do??

1. Will It definitely be the same teacher
2. Will her current set cover the texts in tge same depth?

I think there is a lot to be said for sticking with a teacher that matches your style. There is usually overlap between sets.

Im a bit surprised its been presented as a choice though... dont the teachers usually decide who is best where? There may be some in the top set that they need to move down.

If she stays in her current set, will there be a cap on the grade she can achieve, or do both sets sit the same papers?

There is no cap on the grade she can achieve, they all sit the same paper.

As far as I understand it, there is no set 1, 2, 3, 4 etc. at her school. There is one ‘top set’ and all the others are mixed ability. So it’s one class of the very top English students, going for grade 9 I suppose. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not!

I wouldn’t move her to a teacher she has had before and didn’t gel with.

i’m an ex teacher and I’ve allowed kids to change back to teachers they like when strictly they should be up or down a group but weren’t coping socially,

I presume all the texts are the same across the sets? (Only bc dd in top set did different texts from other sets).

I agree with @Octavia64 that if you like teacher an and not teacher b, there’s a lot to be said for staying.

Is it certain that the teachers will be as this year? What differences are there with the top set, can the teachers say?

Like I say for Dd (Eng lit degree in the end) she did Frankenstein and Animal Farm as opposed to ACC and AIC.

With this in mind I would encourage the move.

Especially if she wants to do A-level.

Yes of course go for it

Generally, teachers stay with their GCSE group throughout, unless they leave or some other unforeseen circumstance.

DD was in top set for English and got on really well with the teacher. Unfortunately, he left at the end of year 10 and was replaced by someone she didn’t gel with. The result was that she didn’t get the grade she’d been predicted and should have easily achieved.

I think there are massive benefits to being pushed in both English Literature and Language which will help her with her A levels if she is doing any essay subject. This will help teach her complexity and depth to her reading and analytical skills. To quote the mark scheme, the top students will gain a level 4 because they can demonstrate "Developed, insightful, exploratory, subtle, confident, analytical, conceptual, sophisticated" comments.

Will she get the same depth of teaching in her lower set? I would ask the honest question of what do they think she could get in the top set compared to staying where she is now? Mixed ability classes are covering a wide range of grades and I would be asking specifically what grades they are covering in her currently class.

At the end of the day this is all about achieving the highest numbers for that GCSE certificate at the end. You cannot always choose the teacher you want, her current teacher could go off sick for months on end. There is never a guarantee. She is clearly capable of the work in the highest set why wouldn't she want that opportunity?

If she’s already achieving better grades than some of the students in the top set, and is very motivated, is there anything to prevent her from doing extra work herself or being set exstension work by her current teacher? Maybe going through past papers with the marking schemes would be helpful, if they’re not already doing that. I’d be worried that it might affect her confidence if she’s moved from a group where she’s happy and comfortable to one where she could feel that the pressure is on to perform.

She could stay in her set but try revision sessions for top set if they are put on in y11.

If she moves but doesn't get on with the teacher she could turn a 7/8 grade into a 6/7. Or she could lose the confidence she has now.

I spent several years bottom of the top set in maths. It was very discouraging to always be last and stressful trying to keep up with the very brightest. I moved down a set at 14/15 and outperformed some who had stayed in the top set.

I think it’s very strange that she’s been given the option. The head of English should decide, they make these decisions very frequently and have access to all of the information that supports the decision. (Head of English here)

If she has achieved 2 grades higher than the top set, what she is currently doing is clearly working for her. Let her drive this one, OP. A simple 'I seem to be doing fine where I am' should suffice with school. It is good they are asking her not just moving her without any consultation.

I don't think it strange. Dd was given the option of moving up a maths set or not. She ended up doing a 3 week trial and then deciding.

Surely emotions and confidence should be taken into consideration, not just data?

I wouldn’t stress too much re sets. My son was in set 3 for all subjects - the slower pace suited him much better (autistic and dyspraxic) in history he would come top of year but didn’t want to move sets as adored his history teacher. He ended up getting all 8’s and 9’s at gcse. I would let your daughter do what she feels comfortable with

I used to do the setting for maths, and I always reckoned the set 1/2 borderline was the wobbliest. There were always some (usually girls) who fared much better at the top of set 2, where they felt more confident, and then there were the bright but lazy kids (usually boys) who would sink to the bottom of whichever set they were put in, so were best kept in set 1 as long as possible.

That's interesting and certainly fits with my experience. My eldest was that bright kid who coasted through high school believing a pass was good enough. My youngest was more like me and really had to put in the effort to get good grades.

English has been untiered since 2017 so this is not a consideration.

Honestly, it's hard to say without more information. What was her mock grade? Does she want to do A level? Is she the kind of child who is better off being a big fish in a small pond or would she raise her game in a more demanding context?

I would argue if her grades are already a lot higher than students in the top set, doesn’t this suggest she has a great teacher who is managing to help her reach her potential already. Don’t try and push her to move. She is happy and gels with this teacher and that is why she’s already excelling.
I had the chance to move up a maths set when I was at school. My maths teacher was great. The top set maths teacher was not a nice person. Yes I stayed in set 2 and never regretted it.

Thanks everyone - a range of opinions which is good in a way because it means there was no obvious right answer.

I told her I thought she should do what she wanted and saying put was a perfectly valid choice. However, yesterday her English teacher kept on at her and in the end she ‘gave in’ (her words). I think she’s pretty fed up about it. I’ve offered to intervene and be in the unusual position of asking them not to move her up but she doesn’t want me to get involved. So that’s that.

Not sure what to think. I’m annoyed that they’ve effectively nagged her into it but on the other hand, I have to assume they know what they’re doing and they know the subject and their students and how to get the best out of them.

What kind of grades are we talking about here, OP? The teacher may not be confident in their ability to teach for a 9.

Is there some way she can do it on a trial basis? Though that might make it worse I guess (going back to the lower set after a few weeks I mean).

Did you or she find out what was different about the top set – more extension, greater expectations, moving faster through the text so covering more aspects?

Tbh bc the Eng papers are no longer tiered, it's not such an issue to be in a lower set if you are higher ability – as in, it's not about topics or specific content that will not be taught if you are in a F tier group bc there is no such thing any more. So the idea is the student can self-stretch (I should add I think there should be F tiers in English lit and lang but that's not the issue here).

I agree btw – what grades are we talking? Is her current set mostly working at a 5 and she gained a 7 in mocks? And some of the top set are getting 5-6?

All the best to her anyway and I hope it works out well. It might be better than she fears.

She got a 7 in her last two mocks and they said up to two grades lower, so I guess that means some kids in the top set got 5/6. I guess that’s why they want to swap people around.

If it really isn’t working after a month or so, you can always ask for her to be moved back down.