Might taking a year out before starting sixth form help DS develop some sort of drive?

[Puffykins]

DS, who has just finished his GCSEs, is due to start A Levels at a 6th form college in September. However I'm very worried about his lack of drive. I don't know (obviously) what his GCSE grades are going to be - 7s/ 8s/ 9s were well within his capabilities, but whether he'll have got that remains to be seen. He doesn't do any extra work unless someone is actually standing over him, and didn't appear to have any actual aspiration to get the grades that he could get.

He's chosen to do music, philosophy and politics for A Level. For music, he ideally needs to be Grade 8 in his primary instrument by the time he takes his final exams. He's currently Grade 6 - and does zero practice, and now claims to dislike the instrument (clarinet) - but his teacher has quite firmly said that he's not good enough on bass guitar to make that his primary instrument, besides which he's self-taught on bass guitar and is insistent he doesn't want lessons. For politics, his teacher has said that the only thing he needs to do is actually read a newspaper - this never happens. He doesn't have to do these A Levels - but he's insistent that they're the ones he wants to do/ doesn't appear to have any ideas for any others.

I want him to do well - we all want our children to do well - and I'm wondering if it might be worth his taking a year out before he starts his A Level courses. I'm not sure what he would do (plus we live in a seaside town with high unemployment) - but to me it seems almost futile to send him off to continue his education when he seems so disengaged. He's young for his year (end of July birthday) so I don't think it would disadvantage him.

If it's relevant, he's also been diagnosed as having ADHD and autism (and takes medication for the ADHD on school days). He had cancer as a child, which necessitated nearly 4 years of chemotherapy between the ages of 6 and 10 - and there is medical evidence to suggest that it will have exacerbated the symptoms ADHD and autism, and caused other cognitive issues.

Or do I just send him off to college, and hope? Various people keep telling me that this is normal for a boy - but is it? (I only had sisters. And I'm quite type A myself.)

I wouldn't give him a year out if he won't have a plan. Whilst it's possible that a year doing very little might motivate him, I think he will find it harder to go back. I would either send him and if it all goes wrong, look at restarting next year with different subjects, or explore non A-level options.

Is there any chance of seasonal summer work? Some experience of the working world might give him some perspective.

A year off could be a disaster. All young people are entitled to three years 'A level or equivalent 'education but I think it is age capped. If he takes a year out now you are wasting one of those years as I think the college would have difficulty claiming money for him when he is in the 19 to 20 age bracket. Much better to let him start the courses he has chosen and change if necessary.

No plough on but you might consider if A levels are the best route for him. I would definitely be looking at BTEC courses etc.

I might be wrong but I think all kids have to in education until 18. Either college, apprenticeship or work but with a qualification alongside it.
I don’t think it would do any harm if he’s allowed and that’s what he wants to do. But if there’s no jobs near you it’s going to hard for a 16 year old to get a job. I live in a huge city and it’s really hard for under 18s to get a job at the moment.

If he takes that 'spare' year as a year out -what will you do if he needs to do an extra year to retake failed exams?

And isn't it more likely that he will use a year out to doss about while paying lip service to 'getting a job' or 'doing something with his time' and then find that he doesn't want to go back into education at all? His friends will all have moved on a year and he'd be with people younger than him.

Yes definitely get him to look at btecs

I think a year post 18 is the norm, so I’d be more bothered about post 16. What do you think he may do? Jobs for 16 year olds are hard to find and what motivation will he have to do anything if he’s not at college.

If he isn't motivated now a year out would be a terrible idea. Do you think he will get a job and suddenly start applying himself or do not think he just doesn't see the big picture which is that he cannot live at home forever.

Just to give you a heads up, if he fucks up year 12 he won't just be allowed to resit it. My friend's DS messed around, failed and then wanted another go and school basically said why should we give you a place in year 12, taking away a place for a student who won't waste it? It is all to do with funding, he was told he could start year 12 again but it would have to be completely new subjects or change colleges and do the same subjects. He chose the former and failed again.

I would just be very blunt with him, reading a paper is now a daily thing and then he can talk to you/his Dad about it as part of a critical thinking discussion. If he wants to switch to bass then he practises every day from now on. Also look at BTECs with him as an alternative. A levels are not easy and if he doesn't apply himself then he will come out with incredibly low grades.

I think you'd struggle to fill his time, and hed be very unlikely to ever go back if you took him out now. Would an alternative to Alevels work better for him?

A year out at this stage would be a very bad idea. Having grown up in an Autistic family and having ASD/AUDHD children, I would recommend booking in the grade 7 exam and having the clarinet teacher work on those exam pieces with him.

I think clear immovable deadlines are essential for progressing, particularly for ADHD (they have been for our family). Deadline extensions and open ended arrangements are far too nebulous.

Thanks - we looked at BTECs - but he doesn't (and we don't) think that they're right for him. He's more academic than hands-on - and he hasn't got a vocation (at the moment) to gear them towards.

He's not yet 16 so getting a job over the summer is tricky - though he's currently got some occasional work with an antiques dealer (he's listing stuff on eBay on his behalf, and gets a cut if they sell) and he's a chorister and so gets paid to sing at weddings.

Noted though regarding the time frame at college etc. - thank you. (The friends moving on isn't really an issue. Firstly, he has very few friends, secondly, he's going to a different college to all of them - which is his choice, the one has opted for is better for music.)

My idea for a Gap year came from something of the sort being trialled in Ireland where it's had, I think I've read, really positive results. But it's also government-backed and there are things for the children to do.

The law requires him to be education or training

Honestly? Don’t. If he is England he cannot even work if not studying if under 18. He would just be sitting at home and would feel more anxious and overwhelmed at starting again, particularly if his friends are a year ahead.

DS is quite academic, has ADHD and he is so laid back he is almost horizontal. I’m trully convinced that he did so well in A levels because he was finally with the set of kids who shared his interests. They were very competitive as well, so that put him in a good constant level of hyperfocus as they were trying to beat each other. Needless to say he got top grades and a place in a top ten university without displaying signs of “studying for hours”.

Let him do the A levels, if he still needs time off after then, that’s fine but taking him off school right now could have longer reaching repercussions than not getting As in his A levels.

Taking a "gap year" at 16 is very unusual, and strictly speaking it is not allowed - young people have to be in education or training at that age, although it's unlikely anyone is going to actually enforce this.

Important question, does he have an EHCP? That will potentially give more flexibility around further education, up to age 25 I believe. Otherwise you'll need to think very carefully because as a PO says the three years of funding is 16 to 19 only. Have you spoken to his proposed sixth form to see if they would even accept him a year later?

I really sympathise OP and understand your concern, but I think it is optimistic to hope that an unmotivated teen is going to magically become more motivated.

Is he staying on at his school current school or changing to a college? If it's the former, have you considered a sixth form college instead? My DS was a very bright but very lazy teen at GCSEs but thrived when he moved to a new college for A Level where they emphasised treating the students as young adults rather than children.

@Puffykinsthe whole system in Ireland is very different. Students do 3 years of secondary school and sit their junior cert at the end of 3rd year, then there is 4th year, also called transition year, which is an optional year before students move on to 5th and 6th year to do their leaving cert. Transition year is still a year where students attend school and have lessons - usually the core subjects of English, Irish and Maths, as well as cycling through tasters of all of the Leaving Cert options. Schools also run a transition year programme where students do various projects, work experience, social work, community out-reach, film and tech stuff etc. It is a brilliant year when done well and in my experience students benefit hugely and grow up a lot and gain really valuable life experience, but it isn’t the same as just having a year off unfortunately, so I don’t think it would have the same positive impact for your son. It is also built into the school system and has been since the 90s- if students do transition year then they do a total of 14 years of school, same as in the UK.

Irish schools have a transition year. Its a structured year in school with projects and work experience and musicals, not a year off. I think it would be impossible to replicate its good effects by yourself.

Apologies not read the full thread, but as a side note, if you currently receive Child Benefit for him, it will stop end of Aug if he does not continue in fully time education/FTE at this time / if he takes the year out (you must notify HMRC if/when FTE has ended, or risk overpayment).
Worth having a look at Child Benefit rules, if applicable to you.

A year out wouldn’t work if he is unmotivated at school what is a year out going to so to help. It will just be a wasted year.

he needs to realise that hard work at school gets him better grades and a better future hopefully.

You cant stand over him and make him work he needs to realise that there are consequences in life, work hard, get good grades, get a good job, do fuck all , shit grades and a doing a job he doesn’t want to do.

No real advice, but if he is a chorister who gets paid to sing then can he not use voice as his first instrument at A level? That is one stumbling block removed instantly!

My nephew effectively did this. Started 4 A levels and realised by November that they were completely the wrong ones. (Think doing English, Philosphy, Sociology and R/S when he realised he wanted to do Maths, Physics, Chemistry and Economics!) Too late to change so he took a year out and got a job. (This was when it was still legal to do.)

Did really well in his job. They loved him. Went back to a college the next year and started his new A levels. And dropped out after 6 weeks. He missed his job. Missed the money. Had got used to being treated as an adult. Couldn’t get his head down to studying.

And that was that.

He is early thirties now and doing really well. But it is a “doing really well for someone with no qualifications beyond GCSE” not “doing really well” and definitely not “doing really well when you consider the potential of him age 11 when he got Greater Depth in all his SATs”.

So I would advise against.

My DS is the same, Autism and ADHD and has been similarly unmotivated during GCSE's. He's also academically minded. He's chosen Maths, Biology and Economics. I really hope he'll pull through at college as he's very capable.

What has given me some hope is that despite not wanting to go, he just attended 2 welcome days at the college including trial classes in his chosen subjects on both days.

He has come home quite positive about it. He appreciates how different it is from school and realised he has some friends from school also attending so they can endure the 1.5hr bus ride each way together. (We're rural so options of colleges and transport are limited. I'll even have to drive him several miles to catch the bus.)

I really don't think a year out will be helpful at this stage, but can see your thoughts behind it

Does your DS take medication for the ADHD? My DS was only diagnosed at Christmas and started his meds in February. They really help with his focus so were just in time for GCSEs.

Really bad idea.

re the newspapers, even I(who am a news junkie) read them through online subscriptions these days.

This might sound too left field, but being ND, would he relate well to a tight structure and routine with lots of support (you mentioned some scheme in Ireland). I'm thinking the Forces (army, navy etc) where he'll be hand-held and monitored? You mentioned standing over him was the only way to get him to knuckle down. Or, please tell me to disappear.

Thank you all - I really appreciate all the input. And thank you for explaining how it works in Ireland, which is exactly the sort of thing I had been hoping to put together myself - i.e. some volunteering, some sort of enriching course etc. - but I now see that it's not possible in the UK. @Octavia64 I'm not expecting him to read physical papers! My point is that he's not even using the family subscriptions that I've arranged for him to have access to. And @TheIdlerReturns I too would think similarly, did I not know DS had given up Sea Cadets, and can barely be persuaded to take any exercise beyond going for a walk. @BalakayAARon he has medication but he only takes it on school days, so is currently not. @Shadowhunter12 good idea - I've suggested this before but will suggest it again.

I think perhaps I just have to hope that some sort of drive kicks in. There's so much that is so wonderful about him - he's kind and he still does stuff with me and his younger sister, and he genuinely loves music. It's just that the minute he needs to do something, he's extraordinarily resistant to it. I reckon he'd totally read the newspapers if it wasn't something that he was meant to be doing. And he spends hours messing around with instruments that he's not having lessons in. The minute his GCSE music compositions were in (getting those finished was like getting blood out of a stone, though he got a 9 for them), and he was meant to be finishing his Art coursework, I found him composing 'for fun.'

It sounds like he has drive, just not necessarily in the direction you want him to drive. I don't know any yp that read newspapers, physical or non-physical, the best you can hope for is that they make sensible choices about what they follow and engage with on social media.

Don't let him sense your disappointment - it isn't warranted. He can make something of his singing and antique-sales on his cv, which is more than can be said for many. Hopefully his college will have some extra-curricular activities he can engage with.