Thoughts on withdrawing from RE lessons?

[MidgetJones1]

We’ve had to send our son to a Catholic high school (Long story but no real choice and 70% of the kids there are not Catholic). I’ve looked at the RE curriculum and it’s almost entirely a study of Catholicism rather that a comparative study of a variety of faiths/beliefs, which I’m obviously not surprised about with it being a Catholic school. We are firmly atheist and would be very happy for him to study a regular inclusive RE curriculum but not comfortable with him being taught from the perspective of Catholicism being the truth.
We are considering withdrawing him and finding an online course for him to do instead so he doesn’t waste his time out of lessons.
Has anyone got any experience of withdrawing from RE from a parent or teacher POV and how has it worked out? Thank you

Can you withdraw? I’ve only known that you can opt out of receiving the actual sacraments in primary, but in a catholic secondary RE is a required subject even at GCSE.

Btw, why do you think Bible study is a waste of time academically? I’ve spent years of my life in academic Bible study and loved it. Loads of literature and history and sociology in it. Our history and culture and own literature is based on it.

If you think Bible study is a waste of time academically, you surely think the same about English literature? Why not remove your kids from that too?

Honestly I’m an atheist but don’t really ‘identify’ as this because of atheists like you OP. Find ‘identity atheists’ really intolerant, narrow minded and, ironically, dogmatic. Just like OP is being.

What are you actually concerned about? Do you want him to be ignorant of all religion in case he decides he wants to become religious? You can't shield him from everything that you disagree with. At some point he will have learn to think for himself and make his own choices.

I think pulling him is a bit small minded. It is a bit like parents who don't want their children to learn about homosexuality in case it influences them to be open minded, or actually gay.

In all my years of teaching RE (nearly 3 decades), the only children to ever be withdrawn were Jehovah’s Witnesses. They were very vocal about children not being taught any other beliefs but their own.

Honestly home influencers is the most significant. I went to a C of E primary, local vicar was very involved and lots of prayers and hymns etc, Biblical knowledge v useful for my Eng Lit degree and my atheism remains unmolested. If he’s aware that this is just one religion then it’s not an issue. Also mist children hate being made to feel different in school.

I would give the RE lessons a go and see how DS feels about it.
You just need to keep the conversation about what he learns at school open. Don't single out RE. If you make a fuss about RE now, it can easily be very interesting to him further down the line as form of rebellion. I also think that talking and learning about different views and ways of life is vital for young people to grow into independent, balanced adults. That doesn't mean they will adopt any of it.

I’d love for him to learn about other beliefs and religions. My issue is he’ll spend 2.5 hours a week studying a single branch of a single religion (they do another religion in one half term a year but from a Catholic perspective). Then he’ll be examined at GCSE in a topic he doesn’t believe to be true, which will set him up for failure (anyone commenting, please note that Catholic schools teach a VERY different curriculum to non faith schools).
Also, we didn’t have the luxury of a non faith school for him- hence why so many of the kids there aren’t Catholic. This is a school that ‘requires improvement’. Anyone thinking we’ve sent him there for other benefits is sadly mistaken.

Parents absolutely do have the right to withdraw their child from RE lessons, even if it’s a faith school. While I understand OP’s concerns and I know that some non-religious parents have effectively no choice but to send their child to a faith school, I’d have been embarrassed at that age if my parents had withdrawn me from RE. I just wouldn’t have wanted the attention.

https://headsup.warwickshire.gov.uk/assets/1/sacre_guidance_on_withdrawal_from_re.pdf

Yes we are atheist and dd had to do Theology at a Catholic school. She did seem to study a lot of Judaism, which was a bit of a surprise, and a lot of other faiths but it became slightly more Catholic oriented in the last push before GCSE's. Really she would have preferred to do psychology, philosophy or sociology instead as we assume the main point is to understand morality, philosophy and to an extent psychology and social structures. I think dd found it quite an easy subject and got a good grade, plus it did prompt a lot of discussions that were good to engage with her on whether "sky gods" as she liked to call them were vengeful men with grudges despite preaching forgiveness... I think on balance it is a subject that makes them think critically on a deeper level if they are engaged, which has knock on effects for subjects like History and English.

Have you asked to see the school’s FULL scheme of work ? Not just a brief outline

Does he have to do GCSE in RE?

My niece went to a Catholic secondary school and quite enjoyed the RE lessons from a historical perspective, looking at how the religion developed. She enjoyed learning about the Saints (there are lots of them), used to tell us, with a sceptical attitude, about the miracles the Saints were supposed to have done. She found it all quite amusing. She's now 22 and not religious.

She had no real sensible choice of school either because of where they live.

I absolutely want him to be understanding of ALL beliefs on an equal footing, this is my concern.

My 4 all went to a Catholic school, we are atheists . I let them all make their own minds up and they are all atheists as adults .

I also just remembered, they had a male teacher who was openly anti-abortion which had the (perhaps unintended) effect of making a lot of the classes furious and educated about the benefits of feminism!

It's about not indoctrinating in anything ... all views should be presented so the young person can make choices based on knowledge.
I am sure the OP does not object to the broad RE curriculum that is taught at GCSE but simply pushing one religion.

She had no real sensible choice of school either because of where they live.
Herein lies the problem. State funding of faith schools should be banned.

Yes- GCSE RE compulsory but again, it’s the Catholic curriculum (right of withdrawal is there though). Thank you, that’s good to know.

Im not at all concerned they’ll manage to indoctrinate him. I’m concerned about the views on homosexuality etc that may be promoted. We’ve brought him up to be tolerant and inclusive of all and he’ll be very vocally opposed to intolerant views, which may get him into trouble

I’ve looked through the entire curriculum for Y7-9

"Then he’ll be examined at GCSE in a topic he doesn’t believe to be true, which will set him up for failure (anyone commenting, please note that Catholic schools teach a VERY different curriculum to non faith schools)."

You do realise that being raised Catholic, in a Catholic Primary and then secondary I didn't have a choice where my devout religious parents sent me and although "Catholic" I had stopped believing in that religion by the time I was 12.

You just learn what to write that will get you marks, you don't have to personally believe anything, just write what the examiners want to hear. Same with class discussions, you don't tell everyone you don't believe.

We had a mini mass every week at the chapel on site, we had retired priests living on site, we had nuns and brothers in their brown Jesus sandals as teachers. If you ever said you were having doubts it just led to intervention by the retired priests coming to indoctrinate chat to you.

My children went to a CofE school and we just talked about all religions. You can do this at home, it is a conversation opener, what did you learn today at school? When they tell you about their RE lesson you can talk about it. Mine learned about other faiths, still atheist.

On homosexuality specifically, my sister was gay, went to the same school obviously. You just keep your mouth shut. You will never change their teaching of it.

If parents have the right to withdraw children from RE/ sex education, is the school obliged to provide supervision for them? (I teach in a Catholic school, outside UK system but if parents don’t want a child to access RE/sex education, our school doesn’t provide supervision so a parent must collect before the lesson and return afterwards. Needless to say, withdrawals are basically non existent!)

I was a supply teacher, and did a fair amount of work in a Church junior school that was actually quite strong on the religious element (e.g., prayers before lunch, at the end of the day, etc.). In one RE lesson, a child (trying his luck with the supply teacher) told me he shouldn’t do RE because he wasn’t Christian. I stopped the class and shared what he’d said, explaining that actually RE was for everyone - the important rule is we respect other people’s beliefs/lack of belief. He was quite sweet after that - but for the rest of the day I had children sidling up to me to tell me that they went to church with their Granny, or that they believed in God. Or that they didn’t, for that matter.

It was actually rather nice hearing Y6’s view of God!

Your child is not going to enter the priesthood because of RE lessons at school.

You just have to think about what you can do to provide a balance to what he is learning at school. Allow him to be confident in questioning what he hears at school and point out the positive things and value in all the other religions.

Honestly it is very unlikely he will be the only child who thinks the beliefs are outdated. I remember at my own (non catholic) school having RE lessons and the only Catholic in the year crying because she didn't understand why she was told contraception was bad. No one jumped on her for the way she had been raised but again, prompting discussions to firm up your understanding before just blindly repeating information is where RE/Theology is actually useful.

If theres a lot of non catholics there, what are the Muslim/other faith kids there doing for RE then, being pulled out as well?

Who cares imo, it's an extra gcse, it's easy and you can discuss about it at home. Catholicism and Christianity have been huge parts of many countries history, bible stories are referenced in art and literature..

If it's a school that needs improvement I'd save your money and put him in tutoring instead of RE at home. You can spend weekends or trips to mosques and temples etc to cover other faiths

Why will he fail if he is examined in something he 'doesn't believe to be true? What's that got to do with anything? Is he incapable of studying something abstract?

Unless someone is a pure pantheist everyone will have huge sections of RE that they don't personally believe in. And yet they manage succeed in the examinations every year.