In year secondary place appeal

[hydrangeasandroses]

I am hoping there are some experienced people who are willing to advise me on appeals and more importantly, if we can win one.

DD coming to the end of year 7 in a secondary school we chose out of area due to their reputation for excellent Sen and pastoral support (dd is on Sen register as ASD & severe anxiety, no EHCP at this time). The sendco at our primary also recommended this school.

however, this school has proven quite detrimental to dd and we have taken the decision to move her to our local school for her wellbeing. Over the course of the year she has not made any friends, become unable to travel to school independently due to isolation and anxiety and things have now progressed to indirect bullying. However, local school is full and she is second on the list.

we wanted to pick the local school originally but felt we couldn’t as the send team would not respond to our emails or even the sendcos emails on our behalf to discuss our DDs needs with them, so we felt we couldn’t choose them as no chance to answer questions.

we do not believe that a new school will be a magic cure, but we feel that she is being negatively impacted socially & emotionally by the current school. At the local school she would be able to develop some much needed independence as would be able to walk to and from due to proximity. She also has connections from primary.

typing it out, even I can see it’s not enough is it? The situation is escalating day by day so I think I’m going to have to deregister her until a place comes up.

i don’t even know if I can appeal. It’s an academy and I was emailed and told I’d been added to waiting list but there was no formal refusal or appeals process sent.

Yes, you can appeal. When you applied they were required to send you a letter saying you didn't get a place and telling you how to appeal. Simply saying your daughter has been added to the waiting list is not enough.

Whilst you are appealing for the school you want, not against the school you've got, this is a situation where you may be able to win based on the shortcomings of her current school, particularly if you can show that you have tried to address the problems with them and they haven't done anything effective about it. So, for example, if you have told them about the bullying and they haven't stopped it, that helps you at appeal.

Thanks @prh47bridge I didn’t want that to be the focus of the appeal, I was hoping to focus on the fact that she’d be much closer and able to cope better. I’m happy to talk about the lack of friends but as I’ve said, the bullying is indirect and so far, not recognised as bullying by the school. They seem at a complete loss as to why she has no friends or what we can do to rectify it and I do see their side. However, at the local school she could make a life for herself and have more opportunities to socialise, but that’s not going to happen where she is now. But I’m guessing that’s not enough of an argument to win an appeal?

You can and should talk about all of it. Whether that will be enough to win your appeal depends on the strength of the school's case to refuse admission and the way the appeal panel view the evidence. It will help if you can identify specific things the appeal school offers that are not available at your daughter's current school and are particularly relevant to her.

I've just won an admission appeal for y7 intake in september so have gone through a similar process.

In-year appeals (from what i learnt on the way) have a much higher success rate but also longer/more intense process.

I would try to build out multiple arguments, take you DD to the GP and make sure her feelings/worries are documented and evidenced.

In an ideal world you could win it on proximity/ location but from what i've learnt you need several arguments.

Are you talked to current school about issues and indirect bullying? Would they write a letter for you confirming this?

You really need to convince the panel this is about your daughters wellbeing and is essential - not just parental preference or ease.

Final thought - find out current amount of children in Y7, are they already beyond there planned admissions number?? What about other other year groups? If they are under their PAN in other years you could argue that the overall school capacity could support an extra child!

@OutofIdeas86 thank you so much. Behaviours have escalated today and I have just emailed the current school saying that this has progressed from indirect bullying to outright bullying. My dd is extremely vulnerable and I’m absolutely devastated this has happened. I’m worried the energy to win the appeal would be a fools errand if it’s going to be a long process as there’s every chance we could be offered a place in that time. We’re currently 2nd but have been told there’s much more mobility recently and can expect around 8-10 leavers per year.
interestingly, they sent me data for year 8 mobility for the last few years and they seem to have more leavers than new starters in other year groups, which could indicate they are below PAN in these but I would have to check.
I haven’t been sent any official refusal or appeals process, just filled out a form, sent some documents and was told I am on the list.

I feel a bit desperate and think there’s probably no quick fix except de-registering her from the school and home educating whilst we wait.

What about other other year groups? If they are under their PAN in other years you could argue that the overall school capacity could support an extra child!

Yes, you could - but only against the 'whole school in the same place at the same time' part of the school's presentation (crowding in corridors at lesson changeover, throughput in the canteen etc), since being e.g. 10 under PAN in year 10 does nothing for the problems timetabling a number of the year group being appealed for now not being divisible by the maximum safe number that can be accommodated in a DT workshop. Plus there is the possibility/ likelihood that the school will go back up to PAN in any or all of the year groups undersubscribed at the time of your appeal. There are reasons why a school can turn down applicants further up, but You can't have a place in the 3 under PAN year x because we're 4 over PAN in year y isn't one of them.

Sorry it sounds really rough. But how many days of school are left? Surely you just need to ride it out at this point? I can’t see an appeal getting her a place quicker

OP isn't going to get a place in Y7 - it is too close to the end of term. But an appeal may get a place in Y8. There is no guarantee she will ever get one via the waiting list. So it isn't just a case of riding it out to the end of term.

Yes we’re aiming for a place in year 8, although if we were offered one tomorrow (say someone has moved house now and the first place no longer wanted their place) then we would take it now even with a few weeks remaining.

What GCSES did your end with ?

@Britishsunnygardens…sorry, not sure I understand the question?

@prh47bridge I haven’t received a letter refusing the place from the school or any information about their appeals policy. As I’ve seen you only have 20 days from refusal, is this something that I should ask for so I can make the decision as to whether I appeal?

i can definitely mention the bullying but the school haven’t formally acknowledged it as being bullying but have escalated it to head of year to investigate & are trying to help. So it’s not a case of them being useless it’s more that the broader issue with my daughters social and emotional needs will be much better met at our closest school as she can travel independently, and lunch times are shorter, uniform is more accessible for her etc.

thank you for your help

There is no time limit on appealing. The admission authority put a deadline for appeals in the normal admissions round, but that is only for administrative convenience. They have to hear appeals even if the parents miss the deadline.

Have you formally applied for a place at this school? If you have simply spoken to them and they have put you on the waiting list, they can say that you haven't actually applied so are not entitled to appeal. If you haven't already done so, you need to complete the necessary form to apply for a place. That should result in them sending you a response refusing admission and setting out your right to appeal. Note that a decision to refuse admission simply means they aren't admitting your daughter immediately. She can still get in via the waiting list.

@prh47bridge it is an academy so I contacted the admission lead. I completed their online form, sent in birth certificate and also proof of address and just had an email back to say ‘thank you, she’s now on the list’, there was no formal letter / email or any mention of the appeals process, so as far as I’m aware, I have formally applied for a place but haven’t received those things. Should I ask for them? I’d like to check our place as we can move down as well as up but I’m worried that emailing once a week is overkill. If we’re now first then maybe it’s worth sitting with the waiting list process a while longer, but if we’re now 4th then I think I need to start the appeal process right now

They should have told you that they didn't have a place available and told you how to appeal. You should ask them for that.

If the school is expecting to go under PAN soon due to leavers then they may actually want more kids and so not defend an appeal particularly vigorously.

If they are at PAN they are not allowed to get more kids by offering to the WL in advance of confirmed spaces, but they can allow more kids in by not defending appeals (ie saying they are not too full to manage another).

I have seen this happen in an appeal where a school was at PAN but fully expecting multiple declines over the summer, so actively wanted more kids on roll to avoid the risk of being under PAN come Sept. They didn’t defend the appeal at all.

Arguably this isn’t fair as it means appeal kids leapfrog the WL. But it could work to your benefit if your appeal gets heard before any leavers are confirmed. Assuming the school takes this approach of course.

Also - Being bullied at current school and having support/friendship links at the appeal school is not a weak argument IMO. That is one of the situations I would say there is a decent case for needing that particular school.

Anyway, it’s worth a try.

@minipie thank you for this. Our argument would be social isolation and bullying at current school vs social links at appeal school. Unable to travel independently to current school but would be able to to appeal school (l was thinking of using DLA as evidence as she is in receipt of both care & mobility components which I think demonstrates this), this would also increase social opportunities for her. Lunch breaks at appeal school are shorter which would suit her better because at the moment she spends it completely alone and struggles with the transitions, and the uniform is more accessible. I realise the last two are very weak but I’m trying to just think of everything. I saw data on upheld appeals for this school though and in the last 10 years they have upheld only about 4 out of hundreds, so feeling a bit disheartened.

The current year 8 cohort have had 11 leave and be replaced with waiting list so far this year, so there does seem to be plenty of mobility, although I’ve no idea how many any other schools have!