Moving to London: secondary school options while waiting for Bexley grammar schools

[BrainbowBright]

This summer we’re moving from overseas back to London and looking at schools for our children. I’m most concerned about DS in year 7. The plan is for him to sit for the assessment exams for Bexley Grammas Schools and get on the waiting list for Bexley, Chislehurst & Sidcup, and Beths. Dartford Boys looks like a crazy number of assessments in each subject compared to the 11+ type of exam so we might not bother. Anyway, our headache is around what secondary school DS goes to in the meantime. We want to be well within the catchment area for Bexley Grammar school which is around 1-1.5miles, but I’m worried he will be allocated to Welling or some other unloved and not so great school. How does the system work? Are there any areas to live in with a chance for DS to get into a good non-selective school whilst waiting to get into a grammar school?

Further background - DS is academically smart (straight As), very mature, and will be miserable in an environment where he’s surrounded by chaos and children who have zero insight in learning.

When is he year 7? If already year 6 or 7 he is only likely to get an occasional space if and when available. Some mixed ability schools have grammar streams.

Yes what year would he be in if in England now? If he would be in year 5 then he can apply as usual in October.

But if he would be about to leave primary (ie he is 11 or will be before 31 August) or would already be in secondary, then you would be waiting for someone to leave the grammar - which might never happen.

The LA will offer you a space at a school that has vacancies. It may not be the most popular (sorry I don’t know the area for specifics).

He will be starting UK year 8 in September. I’ve emailed the schools and they have 4 assessment dates each school year for mid-year entry.

But that does not guarantee a space is available.

Is that to go on the waiting list, or for an actual space? For example Bexley Grammar school currently say on their website that they are full in each year group.

Outside of the standard admissions round for a year 7 start state school admissions are generally based on where has a space, and not where you prefer to go.

When in Summer are you moving and when are the assessments? You need to prioritise applying to your local authority for them to find any available school place for you once you move, unless you are willing to home school or privately educate until a space becomes available at one of your preferred schools. And there is the possibility he will never be offered a space at any of the schools you’ve listed.

It’s a headache :-/
The plan is to move near to Bexley grammar schools and for DS to get onto a waiting list for them. Whilst I know it’s not a guarantee, DD went to grammar school in Bexley, so I know that spaces do become available from time to time. Living a short distance from school helps with waiting list rankings.

Maybe a better idea is to live just inside Greenwich borough, around Shooters Hill and get allocated a school there? DS can go on the waiting list for Bexley grammar schools as well as good schools in Greenwich like Leigh Academy Blackheath, and maybe Ark. Ark performance looks ok, but I’ve heard mixed reviews.

Although our children are currently at a private school, we would only consider this further down the road if the allocated state school is terrible.

Yes as others say, unless these schools have a (say) 13+ entry – which I think is pretty unusual in state schools – then even if he passes the assessments, you are waiting for someone to leave, which basically means move away from the area I imagine. You may get lucky of course; students do move and certainly year 8/9 is more likely than year 10/11; but equally you might not. A space may never become available.

ETA apols x-posted with your update @BrainbowBright

Hi..I live near Shooter's Hill and would advise against Ark school. Leigh Academy Blackheath would be a better option. Good luck

In UK state schools you have sets. If your child is high attainer she will be in top sets and she will be for at least 3 subjects with the high attainers

That’s not true of all schools tho. Most if not all set for maths but many don’t set beyond that, or not until KS4.

Ah maybe then I am judging basing on the London Borough I live in. Here all schools have Maths, English and Science in sets. Some from Y7 and some from y8

We had it from Y7. There are 6 sets. My son is in top top set for math and science and second from the top at English and maybe good because top top sets writes essays every two weeks

I have friends who have DC in many of the Greenwich secondary schools, private and nearby grammars.
A couple of points - the VAT on private schools has contributed to (even more) crazy numbers of DC applying to grammars. As someone else has said, there is a very real possibility that your DS will never get a place.
DC can apply for 6th form places at grammars if their GCSE grades are strong enough so that's something to bear in mind.
Have you checked what the wait list criteria is for all the schools? It may be you will need to live in borough to stand any chance.
The other thing to consider is if you have younger DC and they get into a grammar, then that may bump your DS up the wait list.

The things going in your favour are that the number of children in Greenwich is dropping quite quickly. I've got friends who have been given places in state primaries/secondaries that they would never have got into a few years ago, so you may get lucky.

As he's going into Yr8, there is still a bit of time for a place to open up but this would mean moving him for the 3rd time during his secondary school life which is quite a lot. As of course you know, it will become harder to move him from Yr10 as they will have started their GCSE courses and they may not align.

If you're considering Leigh Academy, Blackheath do be aware that it's incredibly oversubscribed now. A friend of mine has a Yr8 DC and they're 43rd on the wait list. They're never going to get a place.
Any of the more 'desirable' Greenwich secondaries have got long wait lists as parents with DC in what they feel are the 'less desirable' are already on them. So you will need to do your research in terms of where you move to.

If you do move to Greenwich, the LA is obliged to find your DS a place but it will be at any school with a place in the borough. Of course you can then go on waitlists for other schools.

I have to say thank you to you all for your kind advice and for sharing your experiences. I already feel more positive about the horizon.

Good shout about home schooling and private options. That will be our back up if DS gets assigned to a nightmare school on arrival. Interestingly Colfe’s has a waiting list for Y8. I read on here that there are other private schools in the area, but maybe we will cross that bridge only if we come to it. I think we will probably look at living on the border of Bexley Borough. Bexley non-selective state secondary schools look grim, so I fancy taking my chances with Greenwich. Hopefully I don’t come on here weeping in a few months time 😂

Bexley non selective state schools are grim?

No they aren't, certainly not all of them. My child is in one, doing very well. Behaviour at the school is good and the teachers are mostly great.

I certainly don't spend my time weeping. Perhaps you should move to another area

I'm in Greenwich, south of shooters hill (Eltham) with a DS in Beths. Any secondary schools near us - Harris Falconwood, Leigh Academy Crown woods (aka Stationers crown woods), Ark Greenwich, Thomas Tallis - are all oversubscribed in year 7 so will have waiting lists. Only one that maybe won't is what is now called Leigh academy Halley. It has an awful reputation locally but it's largely a legacy reputation before it was taken over and academised. It was inspected under the new Ofsted framework and got a great report.

If private is an option, you might consider Farringtons or Babington House which are in Elmstead woods and Chistlehurst, respectively. They don't have super 'academic' reputations, but the smaller/more focused classes might be the way forward while you wait. Eltham College is an option as well. Has a strong reputation for academics (more so than Colfes)

I agree the non-grammar state schools in the area aren't super academic so will be tricky for your academic child. . I'm aware that some of the state schools have a 'grammar stream' for more academic children, but mine are still in Primary so haven't explored that yet.

Good luck! It's a minefield, truly.

If you’re moving to Bexley you might want to look at some Bromley schools. I know several kids that live in Bexley and go to schools in Bromley - Coopers for example runs a grammar stream.

Agree that some schools are best avoided - Cleeve Park is one that should be avoided in my view. Have you had a look at Hurstmere - its boys only but I thought it was fine when we looked round - albeit that was about while ago and DS didn’t go there.

That is assuming that the child who has left ( if any have, and the OPs child is at the top of the waiting list and the school has not accepted children over PAN previously!) has left a space in a top set. If the top sets are full the school might move a child who they already knew into a set with a space but would not necessarily offer a top set place to a new entrant.

It doesn't work like that in our school.. Sets are set at the beginning of the year and there are two top top sets etc. 2500 kids in the school.

You may be talking about small school.

The biggest challenge is to get into good school

I think you’d be better off moving to Bromley as, apart from the super selectives, it’s mostly comprehensive. Bullers Wood boys or the Langley Boys school in Hayes are good.

A small edit to a typo in my original post - “Further background - DS is academically smart (straight As), very mature, and will be miserable in an environment where he’s surrounded by chaos and children who have zero interest in learning.”

Bromley borough has definite positives, but we will be in Sidcup, well positioned for DS entry to Chis & Sid or Bexley. We’re also looking at Eltham College as an option. Does anyone know how hard the mid year entry exam is compared to the Bexley Grammars? Wondered if I can put DS straight in or if he would need to study preparation materials.

Another route to consider if you are struggling to find a good fit is state boarding. In common with all state schools, the educational element is free, but you pay for the boarding element. Some offer flexi and weekly boarding. Clearly there is a difference in sending your child to a high-performing comprehensive school in a local authority with no / few grammars and to a non-selective in an authority such as Kent or Medway where there is an entirely selective system at secondary phase; have you thought about living somewhere else?

Colfe’s is very good if you get lucky and an occasional space becomes available.

Thanks for your suggestion. We have friends who send their children to boarding school in Kent and they seem to be doing very well. However, we prefer to keep our children with us. Nothing against boarding, it’s just our personal preference :-)

We know the Bexley system very well (DD1 went through 11+ and attended grammar school), and Sidcup works for us on many levels beyond DS school.

Good shout about Colfes. There are no spaces right now, but definitely on our radar along with Eltham College.

I have one DC at Chis&Sid and one at Leigh Stationers (Crown Woods) in Eltham. Chis&Sid is definitely better academically, but we actually like Stationers better. The lower sets at Stationers are more disruptive, but if your DS is top sets, it tends not to be. It’s not far from the grammars - a single bus ride from Eltham High Street will take you to any of them (plus a short walk to Bexley Grammar).

1 mile radius from Bexley Grammar School offers, in terms of secondary schools:

1. Blackfen School of Girls --> Not good, for you for obvious reasons.
2. Welling School --> Ofsted rating is "Need attention"
3. Harris Academy Falconwood --> Ofsted rating is good

Crime for that area sits at the 69th percentile.
Number of amenities is decent: 6 supermarkets; 4 GP practices; 1 train station; 2 gyms; 16 convenience stores; 2 pharmacies; 8 parks; 20 cafes and restaurants.

Environmental noise is moderate during the day (~59db) and low at night (45db)/

Air quality: moderate levels of NO2 and fine particulates.

Average household income is ~£52k/year. 56% in employment and 43% economically inactive. 34% have degree-level education.

Property prices average at around £500k.

Clearly, increasing the radius and/or moving the anchor point, changes the picture.