Taking 3 or 4 A levels

[TomorrowMoreWorsts]

I’d be interested to hear what people thing about taking 3 or 4 A levels.

DS is about to sit his GCSEs, and is currently set to start 4 A levels next year. I feel like this is a lot, and I just read a post on another thread saying that you should expect an hour a day homework per subject, and that doing 4 A levels would knock out all free periods.

Granted my experience is 20+ years old but I did 4 A Levels and still had a feee period. I think that issue is going to be school dependent. I did 2x languages so felt like one was consolidating the learning in the other (both Romance languages so not strikingly different), plus English lit and history. I preferred history to English but was more likely to get an A in English so kept going with it past AS level for the grade and did history for the enjoyment of the subject.

While that may be true, it is AFAIK not the case that any unis insist on four A levels. Yes, many students taking FM will have four (tho by no means all) but I know a number of YP who have gone to top unis in recent years and none of them (apart as noted from some taking FM) have had four A levels. If you are studying history (random example) there is no benefit to having also taken A levels in Eng lit, sociology and German. And if others on your course have, it’s no benefit to them really (except the general one of widening interest and general study for its own sake - which for sure I am in favour of, but let's be pragmatic here).

Lots of good advice above. Things I'd talk to DC about...

How capable are they academically? AAA is a much better outcome than BBBB.

Are they likely to be applying for Maths, Engineering, Economics or Computer Science at a competitive university? Further Maths may be helpful and/or essential for some courses and entrance tests. Further Maths can have a high drop-out rate - unless you really love maths it's tough going and might be better started as a fourth.

What subjects are they considering? 4x essay subjects is likely to be heavy going. Maths/FM/Physics have a fair amount of overlap. Are they choosing subjects with a coursework element?

How committed are they to working consistently all the way through Y12 and Y13? They need to keep on top of a heavy workload - if they get behind it's very difficult to catch up.

Are they likely to do any new subjects - Economics, Philosophy, Sociology etc? Sometimes it's not a bad idea to test them out by doing four to start with but with the plan to drop one.

How much do the do outside of school? Sport commitments, part time job, DofE, other hobbies? Completely possible to do it all but usually something has to give in Y13.

@Skybluepinky it’s untrue that “top universities” want 4 A levels. My DC had offers from Oxford, Imperial and Durham among others — with Maths, Further Maths and Physics.

Having said that, I think it’s good advice to start with four and see how it goes. It’s possible to drop the fourth if need be. My DC started off with a fourth, didn’t enjoy it and found the workload heavy, so dropped it.

I missed @Skybluepinky's post but it is definitely nonsense.

DD did three and had offers from every university she applied for (including an Oxbridge offer). She also has a number of friends at Oxbridge, Durham, Edinburgh etc and they nearly all did three too.

DD did four (not FM) because she really wanted to do all four subjects. She understood the AAA better than BBBB thing and was prepared to drop one if necessary. She didn’t, but did prioritise three out of the four during revision time. It’s great if they’re interested and can keep on top of things. She had plenty of time for hobbies and a social life. There’s no point in narrowing your horizons just because it makes life easier imo. (As long as the grades they need for where they want to go will be possible of course.)

My son is doing 3 A levels which includes FM and has just firmed Warwick for MORSE so they do not care about 4 a levels it's all about the maths/FM.

Currently only around 5% of A level students take four subjects in one sitting; around half of these are taking Further Maths as the fourth subject. There will be some taking Maths at the end if Y12 and then Further Maths at the end of Y13 and, whilst that confuses the picture a little, the bottom line is around 95% take three A levels in one sitting.

Probably many academically able students could cope with more than the workload of 3 A levels but other ways to use that underutilised capacity include Core Maths (for those not studying Maths A level), an EPQ, or focusing on activities outside academic study.

None of the local state schools or colleges (all comp) in my area go down the 'try four and drop to three' (with the exception of Further Maths) and I am not sure, since the move away from AS levels, that it makes sense. It introduces huge flux and inefficiencies; better to help students in Y11 make more informed decisions, surely, and look to other ways to add 'stretch' where that is appropriate?

At DD's school almost everyone did four dropping to three (apart from US bound children and FM). It is a selective school with some of the best results in the country, and the best university destinations. So for an able student I think this might be a good path.

For a less able student, maybe just picking three is good in the sense that it might be better to put their energies into what they definitely going to take exams in - but it's often the case that subjects at A Level are a bit different from how they were at GCSE. And some students will be doing subjects that they have not studied at GCSE (politics, sociology, psychology, economics etc) and to me it makes sense to have some slack in the system so if a child has picked something that turned out not to be as enjoyable/interesting as they thought it would be they're not disadvantaged by dropping it.

They did also do a number of short non-examined courses in all kinds of things in the lower sixth. I think DD did one in how to solve cryptic crosswords (which is now her passion) and another in poisons in literature, as well as other things. It's obviously possible to add breadth and stretch over and above the curriculum but that also takes time and money which might be in short supply in some schools.

For able students who are aiming at the most competitive universities, they are best served by focusing on supercurriculars rather than extracurriculars.

Interesting, at my DD's school they all start with 4 and then do one at AS, unless you're doing FM which continues to Y13 - in fact the FM people do Maths in Y12 and FM in Y13.

She's applied to other 6th forms (all state) and most of them were open to 4 as long as you have decent grades. DD really isn't sure what she wants to do so at the moment is doing Maths, a language, an essay subject and a science. It's quite random but I assume she'll work out which one she likes least when she starts. The advantage of 4 for her is getting to do more subjects.

DS is in Y13 currently. He started with 4 A levels including FM. His friend started with 4 not including FM. She ‘reduced’ one of her four to an AS and took it last summer. DS decided at the beginning of Y13 to ‘reduce’ one of his to an AS and is taking it now. He had covered the whole AS syllabus in Y12. A poster earlier on the thread seemed to imply that this can’t be done, but in our experience yes it can. Both subjects - chemistry for the friend and computer science for DS - had the AS element of the course taught in Y12 and they both switched to taking the AS rather than the full A level rather late in the day but without any issues.

A poster earlier on the thread seemed to imply that this can’t be done, but in our experience yes it can.

I don’t think PP said that it can’t be done, just that in the past AS was structured as the first year of A level teaching and now that isn’t necessarily the case.

I took an AS in French over 2 years and went to half of the a level classes - the structure at that time was most of the A level language elements plus a literature piece on one play, whereas my class mates did a lot more literature in the lessons I didn’t attend.

We stipulate either 4 A levels or 3 A levels plus an EPQ. Some end up dropping the EPQ towards the end of y12. Seems to work well for us.