19% GCSE passmark?

[BluePenguin]

Would you allow your child to attend a school with a 19% GCSE passmark and if this school was the only school your child had been offered a place at...and you couldn't move house...what would you do?

I don't think I could bear to but if you can't move and you can't afford private and there are no other schools, what are the options?

Can you really not move?

Sympathy! We moved to escape one with a 7% pass rate (now shut down!)

Yes, depending on the school's intake and value added. Much more informative than looking at raw results, IMO.

Also because I'm arrogant enough to believe DD would probably be in the 19%.

You really must look at their value Added data. The school I teach in looks bad if all that is considered is the hard data but our recent Ofsted rated us good with outstanding features and our Contextual value added data puts us in the top 100 schools in the country. Hard GCSE results data is a benchmark certainly but you need to look beyond it.

Dd got a place in one with a 20% pass mark. I think we would have stuck with it- lots of good points about the actual school- except that it was not disabled access, so not an option for us.

Looking at CVAs is fine when the pass mark is borderline 50s and 60s. But 19% is hard to excuse, and hard to convince that your DC is going to get 10 A-A*.

There is an interesting BBC online article about this Can one school be both good and bad?

It v much depends on local circumstances and the CVA (contextual value added). I also assume that the school is in either special measures or notice to improve which normally means either massive input to turn it around or it will close and reopens under new management, possibly as an academy.

You could do with some 'insider info' from a teacher/parent MNer in the know

That's an excellent article Heated.

ScienceTeacher - I'm sorry but I really disagree with you. Not getting 30% of pupils to 5 A-C GCSEs is totally excusable if most of them have EAL issues, or didn't attend primary school in England, or joined the school in Yr 9 on a level W or Level One in English. That's why we have CVA scores - so that schools that make a huge difference to these children can see their work validated.

ScienceTeacher on Sat 21-Jun-08 20:51:28
'Looking at CVAs is fine when the pass mark is borderline 50s and 60s. But 19% is hard to excuse, and hard to convince that your DC is going to get 10 A-A*. '

There isn't a school in our neck of the woods that has a pass mark above the 50's, and even that is rare. Yet good students with good home support (and a native-like command of English) get good grades.

Do they get As and A*s across the board?

In my area, there are many schools with low GCSE passmarks - a few in like this of under 20%. I don't know many of the secondary school parents well, but from what I have heard it's the standard of behaviour at the schools that would worry me. In my area, there are lots of teenage gang problems that seem to get carried over into schools. As a parent I would worry that this problem affects the school's working environment, hence the low pass rates.

BluePenguin, any chance of getting on the waiting lists for other secondary schools? even as a precaution - so in a year's time, if your child is unhappy at their present school, they have a chance of moving.

Also, can you afford a bit of private tutoring/homework clubs to boost what is taught in school? I know GCSE study clubs are common around here.

ScienceTeacher - is 10 Grade As your benchmark for a good school? For what percentage of students? In a compehensive school?

It's a benchmark for my own child, not for the population at large.

If my child went to a sink school, would he get 10 A/A*? I think that's a decision that many parents have to make, and the realisation that their very clever child won't meet their potential because of the school they go to.

I don't think it's much of a consolation that their child gets mediocre results just because the school is adding value to parts of their community.

It is important for the school to add value, but they also have a responsibility to all of their pupils, not just those that come in with very little. Every Child Matters means every child, not just the ones with the disadvantaged background.

st - some children do get 8 A grades in sink schools. maybe they don't gte 10, but no university or employer will care about that (they just care about the 7 or 8 that children normally take, just like they care about 3 A levels, not 4).

But also, there are more important things in life than GCSE results. apart from anything else, GCSEs (other than english and maths) become irrelevant after A levels or FE.

a more pertinent question is: what are the results for english and maths at the school? if notably below 19% (that being the overall rate for the school), then I'd worry. If not, I'd go and meet the teachers and make a decision based on that.

BluePenguin, if it were me and I really couldn't move house (and I'd change jobs and downsize if need be); then I would first check out all I could about the school. Get insider info, maybe even post on here asking about the school - get existing parents' thoughts, even teachers'. For instance it might be broadly known that it's going to be an academy or there is a new, forward thinking head - if it's at 19% then something must be happening there.

Definitely look round on the open days when the pupils are in.

I would also consider how many other like-minded parents there are like you with children starting.

Sometimes new housing and changing catchments change a school demographic - this is what is likely to happen to my brother's closest secondary school, not so great at the minute, but they live on one of two large, pricey new-built estates & there are no nearby private schools, so eventually those estates will feed into the secondary school.

Then if it still looked bad, appeal? Give the school a chance for a term or two then private ed? Home ed?

What do you think you should do?

I wouldnt send my child there. I'd home educate or go private.

ST - what's it based on though? Do you make a decision that you child/children are able to achieve 10 grade As and only look at schools where that is likely. And how do you make that decision? I don't really understand the thought process that leads you to make that a benchmark - even for your own child. This is a genuine query.

I think most parents look at the schools their children are able to get to, and make their decisions from there.

Are you suggesting that it is difficult to distinguish between a high achieving and low achieving school, or that I should not be able assess the educational potential of a 10 year old?

Even in a low achieving, as you call it, school there will be high achieving pupils and the CVA will also reflect that. One of my highest achieving pupils last year was a boy who was L4 at KS2, L7 by KS3 and a A and A by KS4 - his CVA was superb. My other highest achieving pupil was a boy who came at LW in Yr 9 and got a Grade D at KS4 - his CVA was also superb. Why should his achievement be any less valid than the A?

Meanwhile my daughter, who is in a so-called "good" school, was told that she was L5 at the end of Yr 8, when she'd achieved L5 at KS2. Her teacher seemed to think this was fine and I had to really make a fuss to ensure that this "good" school had high enough expectations of her. That's why we can't just rely on the benchmarks.

I'm not fixated on NC levels. They muddy waters.

When my son was in equivalent of Y6, the only school that my LEA offered was one that has 5 A-C passes of less than 30% (they have since changed their name an are still on the imfamous list). I knew that my son was better than this (I mean, 5 C grades isn't that great, so a very low benchmark to begin with). To go the county's route would have been failing my son.

We don't live in a deprived area, btw. There are many children at that school that come from nice families. It is shocking that we should be led to believe that 30% is a good pass and will not be detrimental to a child's future. Bah!

We live in an upmystreet level 1 postcode (not sure why - we are the ones letting the area down but all of the local non-selective schools are below 20% and ds was first offered one with 16% pass rate that also has a number of other problems at the moment where his dyslexia wouldn't be catered for due to so many other kids with lower attainment levels than him. Fortunately for him he's now off to grammar school. Grammar school and the fact many parents put themselves through real financial hardship to pay for private ed (we would have done if necessary) mean that the situation isn't likely to change hugely. As a teacher it's not right and not fair. I'd happily work in any of those schools. As a parent, I wouldn't send my son anywhere near them. I agree there is far more to it than the results - the school ds was first offered has much deeper problems than last year's GCSE marks.

blupenguin I am in same situation and in the current economic climate, moving is even less of an option that it was a year ago when we decided that we couldn't afford the 200k minimum extra it would cost us to move into a good catchment area.

Our school in question is marginally 'better' performing at 23 per cent. But I still feel I would be eroding what little chance my son has to succeed (he has specific learning difficulties but a high IQ) in life before he even starts...