Would parents choose a more practical and outdoor state secondary?

[OneHappyJoker]

We’re doing some early-stage planning for a new state secondary school and would love some honest thoughts from parents.
We’re trying to figure out what people feel should be part of a state education, especially for teens who don’t thrive in a purely academic system. For context, the school would be fully state funded and not run by an academy trust.
The big idea we’re exploring is mixing traditional lessons with a much more practical, outdoor and vocational approach. Things like animal care, camping, cooking, creative arts, water sports, equestrian, greenkeeping, construction, architecture, tech, and so on. We’re also looking at whether schools should give teens more time outdoors, more freedom to explore interests and more space to figure out who they are.
We’re also questioning how assessment works. We know GCSEs are a major part of the current system, but we’re exploring alternatives that focus on skills and project work rather than high-pressure exams. We understand this is a big shift, so we’d like to hear what parents think before going further.
We’re lucky to have access to several possible sites, including spaces that could be used for sport, arts, outdoor learning, animal care and even things like water-based activities. Nothing is final yet, but we’re trying to understand whether families feel this kind of education belongs in the state sector, or whether it would be seen as unrealistic or unwanted.
So here are the questions we’re hoping to ask Mumsnetters:
• Should a state secondary offer more outdoor learning and practical skills?
• Do you think teens benefit from non-exam-based assessment, or is sticking with GCSEs essential?
• Would you want your child to have access to things like animal care, camping, watersports, creative arts, greenkeeping, or vocational pathways alongside academic subjects?
• Does this sound like a realistic model for a state school, or something that parents wouldn’t trust or choose?
We’re genuinely open to all views, including critical ones. If you could design the “ideal” state secondary from scratch, what would you put in it?

I went to an alternative state school in Canada for my sixth form equivalent years.

it was experiential. So along side the grades on exams and essays we also got points for doing things. And needed to earn 100 points to earn a subject credit. Which was then assessed a grade.

for example an essay might earn 5 points but a camping trip in the wilderness could earn 5 points for either science or geography depending on the activities we did. For English I earned points for starting a poetry magazine. For French I earned points for helping with refugees from Chad and Niger.

Applying learning in hands on ways was fabulous and made all the book learning deeper and more personal. I actually earned double the amount of points because I loved doing all the course work as well as experiential activities. The approach made me want to read and write more.

The school was small so we didn’t have many resources or large grounds so those things wouldn’t be a priority to me. Instead the world outside of the school grounds was our classroom.

Does the geographical area in which you are considering establishing this new school have a need for the number of additional school places you are proposing without negatively impacting other schools and colleges?

How long will it take you to secure planning consent and obtain sufficient funds to build / develop the school, site, access roads etc.?

Given the specialist curriculum you are proposing, will there be sufficient nearby school places for children who want an academic education? How will you meet the needs of diverted children or those allocated via FAP who would like a conventional, enabling curriculum?

Have you crunched the numbers to see if you can deliver the curriculum within budget?

@OneHappyJoker You say this school would be state funded, so presumably you expect to follow the free school route, yes? If that is the case, then you sound naive. Free schools are academies, so of course your school would be run by an academy trust. Perhaps you meant it won't be run by a multi-academy trust, yes?

Just for information, there are no academy or free schools in Wales. All state funded schools are controlled by local authorities (though voluntary aided and foundation schools to a lesser extent than community and voluntary controlled schools).

Do you have any experience in the education sector?

I doubt the state money will cover all of what you want to do. There’s a reason state schools don’t do all the practical stuff - money. You would need small groups and you are really offering home ed principles in a school. It’s essentially a special school so will you be funded at that level? Also most dc actually like school and thrive in them. Have you thought about cost of getting dc to the school? Not a very “green” option.

They have a funding agreement, articles and a academy trust handbook with regukations in it. Its not a complete free for all. They must do english maths and science, offer a balanced and broad curriculum, prepare children for the future and take part in national tests and be inspected by ofsted.

If this is a SEN school, fine.

If this is supposed to be a mainstream school so think you are going to run into problems - no parent aiming at university for their child is going to want to send them somewhere where they get no GCSEs.

So you are going to be left with children who were never going to pass GCSEs anyway (ie undiagnosed SEN or doesn’t meet threshold for SEN school), plus those with parents who don’t care. Is a very difficult combination of kids to teach. You are essentially skimming off all the “easy to teach” kids and telling them not to apply to your school.

Thanks. I wasn't sure about Wales.
🙂

I'm assuming this would be a free school? That's essentially an academy by another name fwiw.

Have you familiarised yourself with all the statutory guidance, Ofsted framework etc? You need to be sure you can deliver your vision within that structure.

Would the school offer courses up until 16 or include sixth form provision? If the former then be very careful that your offer will equip learners with the qualifications they need to go onto post-16 study elsewhere. If the latter, then I'd suggest you research post-16 funding very carefully. It's quite complicated and crucially not all courses attract funding. You would also need most learners to be studying for the equivalent of 3 A-levels and bear in mind that vocational qualifications are in a state of flux at the moment. (Look up the introduction of V levels)

There are schools that successfully run school farms alongside a traditional GCSE offering - it might be worth looking at how they manage things.

There was a free school that opened in a town in the next county to me about ten years ago - primary but with a similar ethos. It all sounded amazing. Their first Ofsted inspection went pretty badly however and the model proved hard to scale to the number of children that made it sustainable from a financial perspective. It's a lovely school but follows a much more typical model.

i assume you’ve researched this-and it could have changed, but it used to be to be that vocational qualifications didn’t really count in the league tables. Our “secondary modern” used to offer lots of BTecs but ended up scaling them down. Which was a disaster for lot of the kids.

@LikeASoulWithoutAMind Not all schools teach to A level so going to 16 is fine. Hoeever taking state money means following state rules. The free schools I know don’t do anything differently because of funding and a need to teach the NC. Clubs are used for extension opportunities. Setting up a school for a hands on education will be phenomenally expensive so who is the sponsor? It’s a bit too alternative to appeal to most parents. Sen ones maybe but there still needs to be a core curriculum.

https://www.libertywoodlandschool.com/ this school appears to be thriving

@Unexpectedlysinglemum It’s private isn’t it? ISI inspected so it’s not ofsted and not state. Therefore not comparable. Also its last inspection by Ofsted was RI. So clearly not good enough and appears to have changed tack.

How much do they charge though? I’m guessing it’s more than the £6k that state schools get.

Nope, not wales- no academies or free schools at all.

Who's 'we'?

Look into this local school: https://www.dorsetstudioschool.co.uk/page/?title=Our+School%26%238203%3B%26%238203%3B%26%238203%3B%26%238203%3B%26%238203%3B%26%238203%3B%26%238203%3B&pid=6

It has links with the local agricultural college (is situated on the premises) and the local well-regarded state secondary. Can't comment on how well it works but it's been going a good few years now.

Fees for Liberty Woodland. Primary, y7-9 and then upper secondary. Lower fee is minibus seat.

Yes - but only for my ADHD child who is simply not academically minded. You'd still need to provide some GCSEs, because they need them in order to get other jobs/progress in the future should they wish. But a curriculum focussed more on the practical side would be better for her.

Yes I wasn't sure about Wales.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner Yes that's basically what I was saying.

You'll not get many takers for a school that goes to 16 that doesn't equip learners with the qualifications they need to go onto post-16 study elsewhere. Which usually means 5 GCSEs minimum.

I totally agree that taking state money means complying with the restrictions that come with that. Although free schools and academies aren't technically required to follow the NC, they usually do.

My last para maybe wasn't entirely clear - the free school I mentioned started with grand ideas of being different but after Ofsted criticism now follows a much more traditional model.

Sounds perfect as a summer school and for after school activities.
What happens when an area is oversubscribed and ‘academic’ children are only offered your school? Not really fair on them.
As others have said, asking parents doesn’t really address the question as we can only say what we’d like for our own children not necessarily for a community as a whole. Best to look at similar set ups and see why they have succeeded or failed.

I think it’s a brilliant idea, but it wouldn’t suit my children. As long as there was the option to opt out (ie enough other schools locally that children would have a choice), then I would definitely support it.

we would be better with the German system of three types of schools, including more vocational schools.

We used to have that system, but it was done away with in favour of comprehensive schools. (Even in grammar school areas, I'm not sure that any genuinely technical schools still exist.)