Will eight grade 9s be needed for Tiffin Boys Sixth Form entry?

[IrishPetal]

Does everyone think you’ll need eight 9s to get into Tiffin Boys 6th form this year?

Loads leaving our local independent schools to try for Tiffin 6th form this year (post VAT) so am worrying the odds are smaller than ever!

Ah, okay thanks. My DS went a few years back.

It’s not who gets the most 9s. Tiffin offers on the basis of a student’s best 8 GCSE grades, but those 8 must be from a specific list of subjects - Business Studies doesn’t count, for example, and neither does Further Maths. The admissions policy is on the website. There’s 80 places for girls and 40 for boys and so it’s a bit easier for girls to get in.

Quite a lot easier for girls to get in! They have double the chance.

And yes there is a defined list of subjects that are accepted - drama doesn’t count either

@TheCoolTiger That’s odd. My DD1 did drama GCSE and it’s brilliant for confidence and expression. Now a barrister. Her friend did drama A level - read English at Cambridge. As one of, say 10, GCSEs it’s a very good “art” choice. Teaches a lot of skills - confidence, collaborative working, performing and public speaking and dependability and showing up! All excellent skills!

Drama is listed as an accepted GCSE on their admissions document.

I don't think these stats include IGCSEs. Most of the private schools local to Tiffin do a mixs of GCSEs and IGCSEs. Hampton boys had 65 pupils who achieved nine or more grade 9s.

@3WildOnes That’s possibly the case but not every school takes igcses for every subject. Some would say they are easier to get a high grade in too.

Hampton has odd results in a way - maybe because lots leave after GCSEs. 84% are 8 or 9 grade at GCSE but 72% A star/A at A level. So quite a few of the top grades at GCSEs are getting a B at A level? Different years of course but could be interesting.

But be careful of that graphic - it only counts people who got a clean sweep of 9s. My DD’s comprehensive generally has its two upper sets doing between 10 and 12 GCSE’s, and that graphic would not count the kids getting nine 9s and then a couple of 8s. It’s not that common but certainly more common than your graphic suggests!

The high number of 9s in 8 qualifying subjects are needed to get in for STEM subjects at Tiffin Boys because those are the subjects most oversubscribed by internal students. There are few places for externals, so they are more competitive to get onto.

Humanities subjects don't generally need such high grades.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner Also, in case you weren't aware, the boys' school takes girls in the sixth form. They started doing that several years ago to help fill up their humanities classes. That's why they always end up taking many more external girls than external boys. They already have enough performing boys STEM-leaning boys of their own.

*That should have said "... high performing STEM-leaning boys ..."

Also they want to have more of a mix of the sexes in 6th form. But I’m not sure it’s strictly legal. Might be, but Waldegrave used to reserve more 6th form spaces for boys than external girls, and on legal challenge they had to stop. It was deemed direct sex discrimination, which I think is fair. External candidates shouldn’t have less chance of getting in simply because of an immutable characteristic.

This is interesting. Obviously A levels are more challenging though, which could explain some of it. But I would challenge the ‘lots leave after GCSEs’. We know very few leaving. Some are trying for Tiffin without handing notice at Hampton, as only one of those options would appeal

Sorry, you’re correct

They treat boys and girls equally, so are operating legally. They nevertheless tend to admit more girls because there are more places available in subjects that attract girls (for the obvious reason that the internal boys have priority and so fill up the subjects that tend to attract more boys leaving fewer places for externals).

Plenty of girls at Tiffin boys are doing STEM subjects so this thread isn't entirely accurate. I would say to study STEM as an external candidate irrespective of gender you probably do need around eight x 9s give or take. I don't know what is generally needed for humanities as my daughter takes all stem subjects but my impression is that all externals tend to have at least 5 9s. This is much higher than some internal candidates have and is due to the huge competition for external places.

Define 'plenty'. 🙂 Everything's relative.

It's no secret that Tiffin y7-11 is rammed full of boys whose parents want them to be medics and engineers, most of whom transfer to sixth form with priority access. They do put on additional classes if they think they can fill them, but there's a limit. When my son was in sixth form there were at least three Further Maths classes, and the sixth form has expanded since then. The fact remains that there are more external places for some subjects than others and therefore some subjects are more competitive than others.

I find this a bit bizarre... it's fine to explicitly limit boys' places to 0% in younger years but it's not fine to explicitly limit girls' places to some non-zero percentage in sixth form?

Tiffin is a designated boys' school in years 7-11 so is allowed to restrict admissions to boys in those year groups.

Waldegrave is a designated girls' school in years 7-11 so is allowed to restrict admissions to girls in those year groups.

Both schools have mixed sixth forms, so are not allowed to restrict admissions to one sex or the other in year 12/13.

I understand the regulations. I just find the reasoning puzzling. Presumably, the state believes that there can be a social benefit to single sex education, hence the "quotas" in years 7-11 are allowed. But, IMO, a 90/10 split is less beneficial than either 100/0 or 50/50 environments for education so I wonder why ensuring, for example, no worse than a 65/35 split is deemed unacceptable?

They're not doing it for the social benefit though - at least not as their primary aim. The main reason is to fill up A Level classes that might be otherwise half empty, and (in Tiffin's case) perhaps also to help maximise the grade profile of admitted students.

Tiffin used to say (and may still say) on their website that they aimed for 50:50 in sixth form, though I think that was partly marketing, to reassure female applicants that they would have a peer group.

Exactly. Given how rare all 9s are in the whole of the UK, I doubt the school can demand eight 9s.

They don't "demand" eight 9's - the minimum expectation is actually eight grade 7's. But they do rank and prioritise their external applicants by grade average on results day. Many of their applicants will get a several grade 9s so, inevitably, averages will be highest for the subject combos with fewer spaces.

Until last year they granted places based on predicted grades rather than actual grades so a clean sweep of 9's was certainly pretty common for that.

It would be easy enough to put in a FOI request for last year's actual entry grade profile if anyone really felt they needed to find out.