Experiences of grammar streams within comprehensive secondary schools in practice?

[PrimaryParent2]

Does anyone have any experience with one of these?

We live in an area with great state primaries, and with a child in Y4 are starting to think about secondary options. Our local secondaries aren't great. One is tolerable but because it's the best of a bad bunch is well-oversubscribed and we're a long way from it. One is virtually brand new and still only has children in, I think, Y7 and Y8 so probably in the 'too early to tell' category. The academy trust that runs it seems highly regarded, but it's located in a really rough and deprived area where the people ruin everything they're given.

The third is a well-established comp which has always had a terrible reputation, even after being knocked down and rebuilt, renamed several times, head teachers sacked, and so on. This reputation is, frankly, well deserved too if the behaviour of its pupils (and parents) in public holds any water, and results are mediocre. However, they have just introduced what they're calling a 'grammar stream' and some parents are getting excited about it. Whether this is some sort of magic bullet or not I do not know, because I've never heard of such a thing and have no idea how it works in practice.

Has anyone come across such a thing and able to share any insight? The school is Lowry Academy in Little Hulton, Salford.

Ive lived near a few schools which do this. In 2 cases the grammar stream had separate lunch, breaks, start and finish times. It was officially to reinforce the differences, but in practice it seems to be a protective environment for the "nerds". It works well though and that stream do well in exams and the kids Ive met have been very happy in it.
The other case didn't run it as a school within a school and the child I knew hated it. It made them a target and bullying was out of control by all accounts. Id be very wary of it until the school have it established.

Thanks @turkeyboots - that's really helpful.

I actively avoided it. The school local to us that does it kept the grammar stream kids completely separate and there was no integration at all. I was worried that it would keep their social circle very small.

I also didn't like the way they set the children according to ability. It was done generally not by individual subject. My child is much stronger in some areas than others and I didn't think it would particularly meet their needs.

I would look at how the grammar stream is done. Each school does it differently.

I can’t understand the rationale of a grammar steam in an 11-16 non-selective school unless you have a really academically strong local college. Most grammar pupils progress to university so I think seeing the sixth formers passing their A Levels and reading about the leaver destinations is inspirational to younger pupils and their families. Of course, where there is a really strong sixth form such as Peter Symonds in Winchester, then it could possibly make sense.

Having had a look at the booklet of the school you mention, children will be moved in and out of the grammar stream depending on whether they remain in the top 32 of their cohort. Given they study a second language after the normal school day, how will that work if your child drops down to place 33 in the annual exams?

I would want really detailed information on the attainment and leaver destinations for the whole school.

My Dc went to a streamed comprehensive but the top stream were not called a ‘grammar’ stream, the tutor groups and sets within that stream were just labelled by the initials of the tutor / teacher.

The streaming and setting (a complicated mixture) worked well. No one needed ‘protecting’, their were strong friendships across different ability groups with great mixing in extra curricular projects (excellent music offer)

But that was a good comprehensive which you may be lacking .

Very very mixed demography in our S London. Comp, certainly not leafy.

Are you able to look at results by progress rather than just attainment, and see how students of higher ability achieve? I'm assuming you see your DC as being in this category. What proportion of the current cohort is 32 in the grammar stream likely to be? This may be difficult though, for those who took GCSEs last year (like my own DS2), as they started in September 2020, hadn't done SATs and had been out of school for a long time, so had started at a low level.

Are all 32 students in the "grammar stream" going to study all subjects there, and what are practicalities for them to be moved up and down in year 9, as they get closer to GCSEs? What happens to students with a spiky profile, or students who have, say, dyslexia but have potential to do well with dyslexia support? What happens to teaching option subjects, as financially offering a range of options to a grammar stream sounds challenging, and I think a grammar stream in the context of a struggling secondary is potentially very risky for the school, financially and in other ways.

My experience is it is a gimmick. It basically means the top set. They did do extra things for the more able over the years, but the cohort changed. I guess they are signaling an intention.

Looking at the website for the Lowry Academy, it looks like it is just an extra lesson after school every day and is implied they are in normal lessons the rest of the time. It also says students will be assessed yearly whether to stay in for another year oe not (or if others will join who didn't start in it).

Thanks everyone, this is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for and gives plenty of ideas for questions and further research come the time.