Advice for Year 7 appeal after refused place for being out of catchment

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@prh47bridge, my son is currently number 20 on the Year 7 waiting list for our first choice.
The only reason we were given for not being offered a place was that we live outside the school's catchment area (even though we live in the same borough, Islington). We live approximately 20 minutes away by bus (a direct journey on bus 43) and 10–15 minutes by car. His father can drive him to school every morning if necessary. I was informed by the admissions team that this was the only reason he was not accepted and that if we had lived slightly closer, he would have been offered a place.
My son is currently on the waiting list for a neurodevelopmental assessment for Autism and ADHD.

Music plays a particularly important role for him He often fidgets with his hands using modelling clay while listening to or quietly engaging with music throughout the day, which helps him stay calm and focused (he has achieved the ABRSM Award in Music Performance Grade 2 in Violin from The Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music). This has been very helpful in supporting his concentration and emotional regulation.

Not receiving a place at this school has been emotionally difficult for him =( as he was very happy when he saw the music department at our 1st choice.

Any advice on the appeal, what should I write, which grounds can I base my appeal on?

Thank you so much =(

It depends. If they give reasons and say that, in their opinion, your son needs to be at CFB, they will help. If it reads like they are simply reflecting your opinion they will carry less weight.

did you appeal? where you successful?
i hope that you now have a place at a school you are happy with.
you also can apply to schools outside islington.
and go on waiting lists. lots changes between now and september.

for those dismissing her sons grade two, and explaining how their child got grade 6/8 in year 6 - i suspect this was not in a state school? have you seen the stats for access to music provision? are you aware of the costs of decent music lessons?
please recognise that children going through state schools often don’t have the access to instrumentalnlessons.
and aptitude to musicianship is not always aligned with access to classes.
have you enquired into this families financial resources? before dismisssing them?
my child school has discounted in school individual music lessons - but they only start in year 3. and we’re not vigorous. and it’s only because we pushed and supplied the music suitable for exams and then booked and paid for the exams ourselves did my child do his grade 2&3. but these lessons were the best we could accessZ
and the tone towards this boys musicianship shown in this thread is pretty mean spirited.
perhaps attending a school where all children will receive instrumental lessons in year 7 and have continued access might be the way for this child to flourish musically.

i also enquired on mums net about appealing, and to this school intact.
and i was chased off because of my ridiculous presumption that it was worth a chance.

i did appeal, i worked hard to put into words why the school was good for my son. having a) never navigated this system b) been scared by the comments people made on mumsnet about appealing.
and some how my sons conviction that this was the school he wanted gave me the balls to try.

and i found the panel to be warm, and gentle. and gave me space to talk, and asked me questions that i think had the purpose of helping me satisfy their process.

so. i write this partly because what i read in mumsnet made me think it was impossible, that i was wrong to think it was at all reasonable to appeal. but i did, and if you are searching for posts on appeals and trying to figure out if you should try then here i am saying you ahve to be in it to win it.

figure out what it is about the school that is really important for your child. and why not attending would be disadvantage them. you know what it is already. and then write something. get chatgpt to help improve the writing if you need help. and then try.

you may be as lucky as we were.

@velomumhackney did you win your appeal?

Well trained appeal panels will listen to every case with warmth and patience, but that doesn't mean that every case has the strength to win. It is irresponsible to encourage people to think they have nothing to lose by appealing when their case is obviously weak. The appeals are paid for from school budgets and rely on volunteer panel members who generously give their time.

Unfortunately, in my area some people are effectively abusing the appeals system by lodging very weak appeals for multiple schools. Often they have AI-generated documents, and some don't even bother to turn up for the hearing to put their extremely weak case in person. Their cases are still dealt with patiently, according to procedure. However, if more people start doing this then the volunteers will become jaded, schools will start shouting louder about the budgetary impact, and the camel's back will eventually break.

i was so firmly, explicitly and loudly told here on mumsnet that my case for appeal was completely spurious, and it was outrageous to even consider appealling and yet i did, and it was successful.

so yes, many people who have a desire for their child to go to a particular school might have an insufficient justification, but some of us do.

and my experience seeking guidance on here made me think that there are a lot of sharp elbowed gate keepers who don’t wish to demystify the process, or help a family unravel why they think a school is particular suitable.

maybe if people were more open about what constitutes a reasonable reasons to appeal there were be fewer appeal for unwarranted reasons

For comparison, kids getting music scholarships for year 7 will be grade 6-7 pn their first instrument and 5-6 on their 2nd. Great that he has grade 2 but it's nothing special at that age.

To be fair, many of the posters who write on here about appeal are very knowledgeable and are members of appeal panels (not me I might add). IME they are always measured, careful and supportive in their posts; while they might tell a poster that in their opinion and experience, an appeal as outlined does not have much chance of success, I cannot imagine any of them “loudly telling anyone their case was spurious” or it was “outrageous to consider appealing”.

I've looked for a thread from you about an appeal to see what posters said, and can't find it, so I presume you made it time-limited (which ofc is fair enough).

I think people are very open about what is a reasonable argument at an appeal. Someone who is an appeal panel member has no reason at all to be “a sharp-elbowed gatekeeper” – they have no skin in your appeal game, any more than I, advising on secondary school subjects for example (as a former secondary school teacher) actually mind what subjects a student chooses. I am just trying to help.

Anyway I am glad for your DC that you won the appeal and I hope they are flourishing in the school.

i would argue that a child who already has parent able to afford to pay for instrumental music lessons that enabled their child to reach grade 6/8 by the end of primary school are less needing a place at a state school that has good music provision. and that a child who has aptitude but less access via school would benefit more.

i don’t know this family. or this child. but neither does this group.

https://www.rcm.ac.uk/media/RCM%20Access%20and%20Participation%20Plan%202020-25%20A4%20Word%20Template%20(Futura)%20(1).pdf

the number of replies i received couldn’t have all been by knowledgeable panel members.

i am sure the actual knowledgable panel members will have written kindly, but so many of the replies were not. they were incredibly dismissive.

At state secondary schools??

The state secondary I know that offers music specialism places does so on the basis of aptitide, after a musical aptitude test. You don't have to be currently learning an instrument at all.

State schools are required by the Admissions Code to select based on aptitude, not attainment. A child who has never taken any grade test may have greater aptitude than a child who has grade 7.

Unfortunately, many threads about appeals on here attract posters confidently giving incorrect advice, often telling posters that they have no chance of winning an appeal when they actually have a decent case. The same thing happens over in legal. Those of us who do understand how the system works do our best to counter this.

i hopped on this mothers post, because i was disappointed by how quick people were to dismiss her sons musicianship.

it’s very easy to get high quality music lessons is you have a high income, but for many of us. relying on school provision at a time when music is primary school is being decimated it’s very possible for a capable instrumentalist to only have grade 2 in year 6.

and maybe a compelling case could be made for sending her son to a school where every year 7 student is required to learn an instrument. and that has excellent music department.

based on the “advice” on mumsnet i was frightened to appeal, but the keenness of my son- coupled with the inate confidence of a british born white middle
aged, middle class (what ever that means now given i’m totally skint and living pay cheque to pay cheque) mother - i did.

and Im sure you @prh47bridge are exactly like the panelist’s that listened to my case.

i didnt expect to get a positive outcome. but i wanted to be able to look at my kid and say i did my best, and if it didn’t work in our favour
I’d have put all my positivity and focus on making him feel good about the school place he had be given.
but i did get the result i didn’t dare hope for, and so im bloody glad i wasn’t scared off by mumsnet!

Nobody should be scared off by Mumsnet - but if you ask for opinions on a public forum you're going to get a range of opinions, some of which are more knowledgeable than others. Its up to the OP to determine which opinions they listen to.

In my area, the OP's case would not be strong enough to win as schools have very robust cases for not going over PAN. In another area, schools cases may be much weaker.

That's valid @prh47bridge and I agree that threads like this can become a pile-on – often, as here, on an irrelevant point. Yes a grade 2 in music at age 11 is not evidence of amazing musical talent – but as you and others point out, there may be many reasons for a DC not progressing further and they may still actually be talented enough for it to be a factor.

I would also say that while posters often say "those grounds won't do" when maybe they will, equally I have seen many posters offering grounds that they say will win (when they really won't), including "say I refused the other school/get your DC a diagnosis of anxiety/say they need to be with their friends", possibly igniting false hope in the OP. I mean I know you have seen those too.

There is for sure a lot of disinformation about admissions and appeals. I have thankfully never appealed or needed to but I for one and I am sure many others have very much appreciated the knowledge, support, care and consideration on these issues from you and the various other expert posters I was referencing. Many thanks.

The appeals code says that grounds for appeal are unlimited, so there is no such thing as invalid reasons for appeal ... only weak reasons and strong reasons. Some guidance on these threads focused on which arguments carry more weight than others, but avoids giving opinion on the overall strength of the appeal (which of course will be balanced against the school's case). Some posters do give opinions on the latter, and that is often what op's want to hear.

If a school is very popular, with many concurrent appeals, and a robust case for being full, then it is unlikely (in my experience) that the family's preference for a strong music department will be strong enough to win. If only one or two appeals are granted then its likely they will be on the basis of some proven exceptional circumstances rather than academic preference.