Grammar vs independent schools in Greater Manchester

[Hann376]

Hi

does anyone know how the selective school works in Greater Manchester , I.e understand the grammar schools in Trafford are really competitive so we are interested in possible independent schools from secondary school age (ideally mixed sex but open to single sex).

can anyone advise on good independent schools around greater Manchester and which require testing to get in as well as fees? For those that do selective testing are these slightly easier than the grammar school tests?

also do the independent schools have catchment areas?

thanks!

The ones I know of which are co-ed are Stockport, Cheadle Hulme and St Bedes. There are others though around Manchester. My understanding is that the exam is possibly easier than the grammar school exam (I know children who didn't pass for the grammars but went on to these schools). I think the the independents possibly interview though (whereas the grammar entrance is based solely on the test). I don't think they work on catchment but could be wrong! I have kids at the grammars so can answer more about he admissions process for those - but yes it's fairly competitive and tricky if you are out of catchment.

Thank you that’s helpful :)

How competitive / stressful is the grammar school process in Trafford for children and parents? Is it more competitive in Altrincham/timperley compared to Stretford and Urmston?

There are very high numbers of children who sit it throughout the borough although probably more in Altrincham due to the prep schools over that way. We live near Stretford/urmston and wanted a local school so whilst my kids passed for all the grammars we applied to our nearest first. It's as stressful as you want it to be and you have to decide whether you want to put your child through the extra preparation (and tutoring etc - if you decide to go down that route) and also whether you think your child is academically able. I certainly wouldn't have considered it for my children if I though they would find it too pressured. We didn't do an absurd amount of prep - an hour a week plus maybe an hour of homework - from year 5 onwards. There will be parents who do a lot more though!!

Bury Grammar and Bolton School are both independent schools in the north of Greater Manchester. They are both selective on exam and interview. I think they are both easier to get into than the competitive grammars if you’re prepared to pay full fees. Bursary places are very competitive. There’s no catchment but people seem to travel further for Bolton School. My kids are at Bury grammar and I don’t think there’s many from Trafford way

Not catchment for Independent schools. If meet the criteria and the financial requirements then you can go. MGS has boys attending from all across Greater Manchester and up into Lancashire.
Hulme Hall is a co-ed independent school but not selective.
Manchester Grammar is boys only and highly selective.
Withington Girls is very selective too and Manchester High also selective but slightly less then WG.
Bury and Bolton have separate boys and girls divisions.

Trafford 11+ is not just limited to Trafford residents, children from Stockport and Manchester can also take them and get places although not many at Altrincham which offers on distance not highest scores.

Stretford also now based on distance and no longer have top 20 high score (for 2027 intake onwards) Sale also based on distance. Urmston still takes top 20 scores regardless of distance (I think)

We live in Sale and my oldest daughter went to stretford and my youngest went to sale high.
Both excellent schools. I'm not sure I'd do the whole grammar school thing if I'd appreciated how good the high schools are!

It was all very stressful and competitive and not at all how I wanted the start of high school to be.

Surely it depends where you live?

In Stockport you have Cheadle Hulme high and Stockport grammar (not a grammar) which are both excellent and have kids coming from miles (no catchment). My ds was offered a place at Stockport after test and interview neither of which he found very tough and did v little prep for (we ultimately chose state comprehensive instead). The independents are know for taking some kids that don’t pass for trafford grammar. Less competitive I’d say in most cases.

Where do you live? That's going to make the difference to what you choose.

Greater Manchester is huge. My Ds grammar school has a lot of pupils from Cheshire as well as trafford and across Salford and Manchester.

It is stressful starting off with the 11+ it depends if your dc would thrive on the experience. I'm inclined to think mine needed it. You've got to work for things you want.

yeah it really does depend on where you live but there is website you can see like the top schools in your area the best one i can see online is Urmston gramma school in Manchester have you heard of that one?

I’m a Trafford (Altrincham) parent and I’ve put 4 through the 11+ it’s not for the faint hearted and is getting harder and harder to pass.
Your best bet is to put them in a prep to get them through it as local state schools do nothing.
Bowdon prep/ Altrincham prep or hale prep for co ed.
If that’s not an option get a good tutor realistically from Y4 now.
People will come on and say just do it yourself with practice papers but realistically unless your child is genius material it’s not enough anymore.
Alty boys now offer 30 places to the 30 highest scorers regardless of address which means the pass mark is now bumped to ridiculous levels. A huge influx of people from hong king moving into the area has also pushed up the pass mark.
If you are catholic you have the slightly better option of Loreto or st Ambrose both single sex.

Regarding independents MGS and Withington used to be seen as the most academic. Bother excellent single sex schools and selective. I’ve heard of a few that haven’t passed the 11+ getting spaces there which a few years ago wouldn’t have happened. It was always thought if you didn’t pass the Trafford exam you probably wouldn’t have got in to those schools as they were known to be so good.
I still think they are just Trafford levels have become ridiculous.
Other good options are Cheadle Hulme school (not Cheadle Hulme high that’s a state school) The kings school in Macclesfield. St Bedes is good but not as academic but a caring nurturing school we liked it when we looked round.

Slightly confusing as some of these ‘grammars’ are fully independent schools and very good ones too. MGS springs to mind, fantastic school. Highly highly competitive. Needs blind I believe though too so if a child wins a place, they will somehow sort it out.

Thanks that’s helpful :) unfortunately don’t think we can justify costs of prep school at primary age but would go private for secondary

We have put three through the Trafford grammar test and all passed with the help of a good tutor from year 5 (state primary here too) I would agree that it seems to be getting tougher though.

Have a think about whether you are doing it the right way round?

I think it’s a very individual decision and I wouldn’t believe everything written on forums regarding the Trafford 11+…we’re over the border in Manchester but prepped for it ourselves at home. 2 have passed and at one of the grammars now, 1 more to go…

My personal experience is that a prep school isn’t necessary, we haven’t used a tutor due to time constraints and sunk costs if they don’t pass or get in (as a non-Trafford resident). Having seen friends kids at a variety of our non-grammar locals I can see bright kids thriving in all different options.

Thank you that’s reassuring :) which part of Manchester are you? Is it close to Trafford border?

This is the most helpful post.

It's honest. If you aren't tutoring by Y3 you are behind is what my friend who teaches yr6 in Trafford says. And she also says that a lot of the kids who are heavily tutoring are now crashing and burning at the grammars as their parents stop the second they do the 11+ because they stop the tutoring. I am aware that a couple of the grammars have had to introduce English booster lessons because of the extent of coaching and the inability of the kids to keep up... I suspect in a couple of years there will be some 'interesting' results from a couple of the grammars.

If you don't think it's for you, consider living in East Cheshire or South Warrington and then applying for a grammar (keeping in mind feeder primary entry criteria) with the state school option as your back up.

The comps just outside Trafford are v good and a lot of pressure from the 11+ is pushing up demand in these areas. A couple had a terrible reputation but now are amongst the best comps in the NW.

Be aware that the bar for non Trafford kids applying for Trafford grammar has gone through the roof in the last few years.

Trafford has enormous pressure on the number of places to put of area kids and the competition has gone through the roof.

A lot of this is to do with people moving from Hong Kong because agents identified the area as the best place in the UK for quality of life and education. It's had huge implications for Trafford and neighbouring councils.

The situation has therefore changed massively within just 5 years.

Thanks all this sounds crazy competitive!

is it true the grammar schools aren’t equally as hard to get into as all have different pass rates? So Altrincham are the toughest and stretford / Urmston are a bit less competitive?

I dispute that you need to be tutoring in Year 3 to stand a chance! We have used a fantastic tutor who only takes children from year 5 onwards. Of course there will be parents who think you need to start in year 3 (and tutors who take advantage of this) but it is not necessary.

In terms of pass rates for different schools, your child will get a different result for each school even though they sit the same exam. This is because the results are standardised for each group of children sitting for a particular school. Scores tend to be highest for Stretford, then Urmston, Sale and finally lowest for Altrincham. So yes, it's harder to get a place at Altrincham.

It's not a about the pass mark as such. It's about the number of kids trying to get into each school. Altrincham basically gets to pick the highest scoring kids first.

I think you have to have nerves of steel and decide on your own path through it all….mine have sat it within the last 5 years - we started part way through year 5. I was confident the eldest would pass but thought we’d be out of area and did not want to devote hours of time and £££ for a slim chance…DC1 passed for all 4 and would have got in to all that year but not the year before or after so it worked out for us. DC2 passed 3 out of 4.

Not sure about DC3 - time will tell I guess 😬

My experience is only 1 of thousands. I know other parents who didn’t employ a tutor and their kids passed - some got in some didn’t depending on the distances offered and I know others who failed, and some who failed after over 12 months of tutoring….there’s no one right way to do it…my advice would be decide what you’re comfortable with and then don’t talk to others about it!

Bolton School seems very good. We know a few kids there, they seem to be thriving and the parents rate it very highly, and the school runs quite an extensive bus network to bring pupils in from out of area, so 'catchment' isn't really a thing. By national standards the fees aren't outrageous either.

There's also Bridgewater School in Worsley if you're in that part of Greater Manchester. We don't know anyone with children there, but one of the teachers is chair of governors at a state primary and is hopelessly out of her depth there: we wouldn't put her in charge of a pile of used horseshit and would never pay fees to a school that sees fit to employ her. Traffic in that part of Manchester is also absolutely horrific and we're not seriously considering Trafford grammars for that very reason.