We didn’t get any of our choices - appeals & what next

[Switchy111]

I’m devastated that we didn’t get any of our 3 choices.
we have been allocated a school, we never discussed or even considered as it is required improvement and 7 miles in opposite direction to where we work/ nearest town. I tried to put a positive spin on it but my son just cried and said he didn’t even know where it was.

His first choice school, offers aptitude places, which he passed the test for (we got a letter after test to say he was in top 15%, you don’t get exact score). Based on this I was quietly confident he might get through.

I would have been equally pleased with school 1, 2 or 3 - but to have missed all 3 is gutting. All 3 are outstanding and oversubscribed.

ive added him to the waiting list for all 3 schools and now starting appeals.

School 1 & 2 are effectively sister schools. So children take a single cat4 test for entry to both, the school then band the children into 5 groupings and take an equal number from this band (to prove they are taking a mix of abilities).

school 3 has faith criteria.

the basis of my appeal for school 1 is;
— the day before his cat4 test, he was ill - 16 hours before the test I had to take him to the gp and they diagnosed tonsillitis and gave antibiotics (I now have doctors notes to confirm this) therefore he testing ability was compromised and he is likely to have been incorrectly banded
-he has an aptitude for drama, which they have recognised, this school is a performing arts school gives him the chances to develop his aptitude, which other school cannot offer
-his dad, my husband, is acting as a carer for his father who lives 300m from the school (inside catchment). This means our son frequently needs to stay at his grandparents, and only this school would allow this with minimal impact on his schooling (my husband is registered with his gp as a carer, and is on the electoral role of address within catchment)

Appeal for school 2; (sister school of school 1, but single sex)

• same as above, in terms of cat4 test/ illness: antibiotics/ doctors notes to be provided

appeal for school 3:

• the independent application to the school was not competed correctly, i genuinely believed I had completed everything but hadn’t submitted the full application
• because of this the supporting evidence for faith criteria wasn’t considered
• i am now providing baptismal certificate, holy communion certificate and letter for priest to demonstrate with are practising catholics (school is actually CofE, but any faith is considered)
• we are a long term religious family, and need our son to be in an environment that fosters this

apologies this is very long, but just wanted peoples feedback or experiences.
can I boost appeals or add anything?
for example would a letter from his teacher or head teacher help, if added to supporting evidence.
is it worth mentioning in the appeal that we didn’t receive any of our choices and have been allocated an unsuitable school.

im so devastated for our son and for me/ our family. My husband has worked as a state school teacher for over 20 years, in good and outstanding school, so it’s a kick in the teeth that we can’t access the prvovision he has worked so hard to provide to other people’s children.

I know appeals are a longshot but feel like we have some strong points- rather than just saying we want him to go there.

if we are unsuccessful, we will need to remortgage the house for private school fees which would be awful…but i really don’t want him at a required improvement school.

there is no other school with spaces within 20 miles of us. It’s ridiculous.

Yes that exactly what I understood

Do you have a desirable private school nearby? If so some places will be released when parents accept there.

Think your biggest mistake was not listing a school he was likely to get into which would have been catchment non selective. If he doesn’t get a place in one of your 3 choices he then gets allocated a random one, it won’t be the closest but one that has space which is why you have found yourself being placed with one needing improvement as this will likely be one that hasn’t been high on people’s lists. I think your best bet here is getting a place through the waiting list. Have you put your child’s name down for his catchment non selective?

They won’t have any idea about waiting list positions yet.

They have sent out letters but won’t have had confirmation that the places offered will be accepted.

Waiting lists numbers mean nothing at this point, other people with higher criteria could join the waiting list tomorrow and push everyone down.

Sit tight, you have done the right things so far.

Accept the place offered, at least he has a place for September, accepting the place doesn’t mean it is a done deal,or that he has to take it up. It is an insurance policy you hope you won’t have to claim on.

ps if it comes to an appeal start a new thread on here and tag in some of the excellent MN appeal gurus for advice on what to include as some of your suggestions would not be helpful.

Yes definitely accept the place else you really could lose out on any where

The 15% business is about the aptitude test, so nothing to do with the banding ?

AFAIK schools can only allocate 15% of places on ‘aptitude’. How do they allocate the remaining 85% of places? On distance (within bands) ? Does it have a specific catchment?

For instance, https://www.caisteracademy.org.uk/_site/data/files/admissions/27A674FBA292E0981BE8A964B4721FB7.pdf

Caister Academy offers 10% performing arts places. Within that, though, 50% must be Pupil Premium. So that boils down to 6 places for non pupil premium applicants.

Then it's fair banding, within which priority is given to pupils from feeder schools, then pupils in catchment, then pupils out of catchment. Within those categories, distance from school is the tie break.

As the faith school is not your closest, would you actually have got in had you filled out the information correctly ( assuming distance is a tiebreaker)?

I’m so confused. Labour has repeatedly told everyone schools are running empty and are under subscribed, so will shut, yet many don’t get their school of choice. Which is it? Are schools full or empty, if empty, why do they test for ability/aptitude - if they need bums on seats for funding?
Regarding scamming a religious school for a faith-based education, our local faith schools want to see baptism paperwork signed by local parish priests - hopefully this isn’t what you’re being asked for, since would require attending church each week as well as a staging a baptism. Presumably the wait list will be an in-year transfer, as I understand it there is quite a lot of movement on these, many don’t accept their place or move (at least in London) creating spare spaces before term starts.

Its not at all confusing though, is it? Some schools will always be oversubscribed, others under subscribed because parents don't want their children to go there for any number of reasons

Some areas are disproportionately affected by the falling birth rate. Some schools may have performed badly in the past and although they are now 'good' schools, names and reputations stick. Some schools are desirable and so people would rather try to squeeze them in to that school than accept a school with less pupils.

Some schools are perfectly fine but inconvenient for travel, clubs, etc.

Exactly this. understandably, nobody wants their child to go to the underperforming, requires improvement state school with behavioural issues. And there seems to be a lot of those around!

I think this is right…

For school 1

DS was in the top 15% for drama aptitude but not in the top 5%. So if some drama aptitude pupils go elsewhere, there may be a place for DS if, say, his score was in the top 6 or 7 percent,

Separately, he is in one of five CAT ability bands and you believe he should be in a higher band because of tonsillitis- if accepted, this argument might move him from the band 2 to the band 1 waiting list. Are places within bands allocated by distance from the school?

@Switchy111 you can appeal, but from experience none of the grounds you've given would stand much of a chance.
Unless you have a cast iron case that the detriment to your child by not having a place is greater than the detriment to the school of being over numbers it's almost certain not to succeed.

You really are confused! Her posts were clear that they have baptism paperwork and have attended church so wouldn't need to stage anything. It was just a mistake in the process, probably not attaching documents at the right point. So not a scamming situation to sneer at, though there's obviously some over-egging of how essential a religious education is given it was only third choice.

As for the other confusion, it's really not confusing either. Can you not imagine that schools are different in different areas, so some will still be over-subscribed even if some aren't. Labour aren't commenting on every single situation. OP's is a classic example where she's applied to 3 schools that were longshots in different ways, so didn't get a place, but there were other non-selective schools with places available, she just didn't want them so they're not over-subscribed. But no schools are full or empty so there is no 'which is it?', it's slightly more nuanced. If you find that confusing, the world must absolutely bamboozle you.

First, you are not appealing (yet). There will be a second (possibly 3rd) round of allocation, so there is a chance to get a place based on the criteria. Appeals only happen later on. I would suggest you submit all the documents again for school 3, because late applicants are considered in the next allocation rounds, so you will stand a better chance to secure a place this time round.

If you were unsuccessful on the next allocation rounds (next one should be mid May), and going to appeal, you have to really focus your appeal letter. The only valid reason for appeal is if the detriment to your son not attending the school is greater than the detriment to the school being oversubscribed/over its admission numbers. So for example, your DH being a carer is irrelevant. The drama element however is not and is what you should focus on.

Can you find the allocation data for your local authority? Most publish allocation statements for all oversubscribed schools (You sometimes have to dig deep to find the data). It really help to see who got the places previous years, distances and other criteria. You should also be able to find the data for births in your area so you can assess the likelihood of a place and focus your choice.

Ah, so what Labour meant was ‘we have plenty of space for your children at failing schools’ - thanks for clarifying. Given their strategy of closing independent schools doing perfectly well, straining the ones that remain and making good state and grammar places vastly more competitive than before the addition of VAT - means the policy has been delivered as planned. Bravo to Starmer.

I agree with Lougle.

Nothing mentioned so far sounds like a certain win at appeal, but (as ever) much depends on how strong the schools’ cases for not admitting will be.

For the banding test: it’s often the case that the last distance offered varies from band to band, so it is possible that a child who missed out on distance in one band would have got a place in another band, but the appeal panel has to work with the banding test results before it. It can’t (or at least shouldn’t) substitute a test result of its own.

The aptitude for drama and the school’s performing arts specialism is a stronger point.

I don’t understand the argument about the child’s father being a carer and the child sometimes staying with the father and grandfather at an address in catchment. Is it that the child kind-of lives in catchment? That argument won’t fly unless there is clear evidence that the child spends more nights at that address than the address given on the application form, is registered there for child benefit etc.

For the faith school: unless there’s evidence of (say) a glitch in uploading documents, the appeal panel is unlikely to find the school or admission authority to be at fault. The panel is likely to take the view that wanting the child to attend a faith school is about the preference of the parents, rather than the needs of the child. I have never heard of an appeal being won on these grounds, except on MN.

Assemble as much evidence as you can, and do your best, but waiting lists may be your best hope here.

Plenty of undersubscribed good schools near me, you must be in an unfortunate area

I think @80smonster just wants a moan about Starmer/Labour and should start a thread on that then, as it's boring and irrelevant to go on about on here.

OP, given that it doesn't sound like a glitch on the church school application, your best bet might be a waiting list place at that school when they have your documents and can put you in the right category. Definitely get on lots of lists when they open at the end of March. The drama appeal could have a shot too, if you're lucky. But definitely accept the offered place and investigate all back-ups.

I would contact the school and ask where he is - they should tell you and you can call them or LA regularly to check for movement.

Lots of people offered places will be holding private school places or it will have been their 2nd or 3rd choice so the lists move a heck of a lot between now and Sept. My son joined one of his schools 2 weeks late because of a no show. You can also ask what kind of movement they tend to see between now and September.

I’d take their advice given he was in top 15% in the entrance tests, they may be keen to support you and offer some reassurance?

Doesn’t sound like you added any in your catchment area to your list and instead selected the schools on their performance and what they offer - am I reading that right? You can’t add a school because occasionally DS stays at grandparents!!!

We didnt get any on our list for DS. We had 2 in the catchment and one which was a faith school which was also in catchment. We knew we had little chance with the faith school but it was the only other secondary school in the catchment area so worth a punt

We were given one miles away which was a poorly performing undersubscribed school - and they had bundled every single child in our area into it (new ish housing estate) Complete nightmare but we appealed and got our first choice

But you need to be specific about your appeal reasons and I would seriously consider looking at the schools directly in your local area as you will have more chance.

We targeted the most local one and first on our list - we had specific reasons we could appeal and it related mainly to my son being SEN and also myself being a single parent to other children too and quite literally I couldn’t have got him there and managed getting my other children to school too. My school run would have been 90 minutes either side of the day with children at schools in 2 towns. There wasn’t a bus route, no school bus, or any safe way for him to cycle either.

So @Switchy111 your closest school selects a certain % on aptitude (for drama?) what is that %? Is it 5%? Your DS was in the top 15%, is that right?

Other than that places are allocated via a fair banding system and you think if he had scored differently there would have been fewer students in his band, giving him a better chance of a place? I am no expert on this but tbh it seems less than fair if the bands are set and then oh look! More students fall into the middle band so they have less chance of a place? Surely the bands are reset (as needed) to give a similar number in each one? So it (eg) there are 200 spaces and 600 took the test and applied, and there are four ability bands so 50 are taken from each band, you would hope that the bands would each have about 150 pupils, rather than the top band having 80 and the second band 200? Otherwise it’s hardly a fair banding test surely? The whole point of those tests as I understand it is not to be selective, but to ensure an even spread of ability?

I don’t think any of us understand the significance of your DH living at his GPs’ house tbh. I took it that it would simply be handy for your DS to go there after school – which would not be a criterion for appeal. But does your DH live there? Is that the address you used?

If pref 1 is your nearest school, does it use distance as a tie breaker? How far outside the distance are you, if so? A school local to me (the one that does the banding test actually) has no catchment and basically uses a lottery (outside a specific area of social deprivation it prioritises) to decide places. Is that what this one does? Is there a nearby school that does go on distance? Sorry so many questions. I agree with others btw, go and see the offered school and talk it up big time.

Just a thought – your DH is a teacher – could your DS apply there and get priority on the WL for that reason? Some schools prioritise DC of staff.

@80smonster yes some schools are low on numbers. That doesn’t have much to do with parents not getting their first pref tho. The schools that are low on numbers are not the ones everyone wants (pretty obviously). The school the Op has been offered is probably one that is low on numbers. I could tell you which schools are low in my area. They are not on people’s preference lists. It’s not hard to understand surely.

The aptitude tests are to ensure fair banding. The school wants to ensure there is a range of ability. It then offers places accordingly.

I don’t think btw that every LA does a subsequent round of allocations. Some have a second pass when all those who didn’t get a place are looked at again in light of any rejections from those perhaps going private of HE. But it’s not a formalised process across England AFAIK.

sounds very difficult
the “drama aptitude” may be the best grounds for appeal.
don’t mention the fact that you think current school is “unsuitable”.

I also don’t understand why the dad is on electoral roll for an area other than the one he lives in (?). But either way that doesn’t matter. It’s where your son actually lives that does. And in the event you’d said he lived at the grandparent house that would be fraud. Where his dad is/is not on the electoral roll for is irrelevant

Oddly I was wondering how on earth do you different between the top 5% and 15% for Drama at age 11? Is it evidence driven like Sue played Matilda in the west end but Bob only played orphan number 6 in Oliver, down to the lower quartiles where the parents just paid for them to be in their local stagecoach show?