PHS vs Jags

[lg1040]

Jumping on the choices band wagon here but with a bit of a twist. My DD has her heart set on PHS. We are in the very fortunate position that we only dreamed of being in to choose between the 2. We visited on the open days and hands down my dd loved Putney. Her reasons are not that solid (loves the uniform, Putney has gymnastics and she liked the person who interviewed her).

She won’t even hear of going to jags even though jags is much more convenient location wise for us. Putney is an easy 45 minutes away from us using bus, tube and train.Jags is a 40 minutes walk, I could drive her every morning and is near her dance. I’ll be honest that I haven’t visited jags (my husband and DD did) and I’m mainly interested in academic results which are very similar.

She has friends already at Jags and it’s much more local to us and so she’d have friends she could go round to their houses etc.

We tried all these arguments and she absolutely won’t hear it, just has her heart set on Putney.

I’m really torn as she did work really hard to get here and I did say if she got into Putney I’d allow her to go there (at a time I never thought we’d be in this position). We told her she’d have to wake up mega early, she’d have to commute, she won’t have that many local friends etc.

what would you do? I am not usually a democratic mum but I’m leaning towards giving her this agency as a reward for working so hard. Thoughts?

You refer to bus, tube AND train - does it mean that your DD will need to use the 3 means of transport? If so, please bear in mind that it will only be 45 minutes if all connections works perfectly and there is no delay at all...which, tbh, is probably not the lived experience of most in London. My advice is that you do the same journey with your DD during rush hour so she experiences it...
Also to note, it is not only your DD but also you on accessions that will do that journey - e.g. recitals, performances, etc. Not to mention that if she plays for the school or rows, there will be those journeys at the weekend.
Also to note, most of the girls at PHS are pretty local (Putney, Southfields, Clapham, Fulham) with some from other areas around the District Line. From your post, you are more towards the SE, so meet ups with friends will also be more challenging.

We’re in Brixton so yes the trip would be bus to Brixton (10 minutes) , tube to Vauxhall (2 stops- 10 minutes) and train 2 stops to Putney (10 minutes). It is bitty but pretty well connected. There is also one bus from 10 minutes down the road but takes about 50 minutes.

I work centrally so it’s a 25 minute journey from my house driving to a 45-1 hour journey. But the issue is - surely the commute is not the only factor? Maybe I’m naive :)

Do parents impose their decision on their dc if they really have their heart set on it? I’m also not sure myself, quite like putney’s modern scholarship ethos…

Usually the commute is a factor but not necessarily the main one but, going by your post, the commute is the main issue that you mention so clearly a key factor for you, hence my comments. Personally, I think that you are being rather optimistic with the travelling arrangements, but that is for you to consider (and, to present a balanced view, commutes of 45-60 minutes are no uncommon).

You mention the academics but not sure if you have looked at the gcse options / programme (which is different) or the the sports offering (Putney is big on rowing and lacrosse but does not do hockey or have a swimming pool, for instance)? Those are things to consider and/or to highlight to your daughter so you would see if that changes her mind.

On a more general level, the issue is less whether people let their children decide and more than you already promised your DD that she could decide and now you would be going back on your word.

Bus for 50 mins is better than 3 types of transport 30 mins due to TFL 30 mins if delay on line, if train strike etc it would be more hectic. Easier to revise or read and listen to music on bus. Though get her use to all transport options. Is the bus a school bus or TFL? Think how to manage registration time or running late?

Just to add a bit more context, my dd is really into gymnastics and jags really doesn’t do gymnastics. She applied for a sports scholarships at Putney but didn’t get it. I did email them and they called me within the hour to give me quite positive feedback about her performance but I don’t know if they would just say anything to get us to accept.

I’ll be honest that don’t know much about gcse choices. Looking at their website jags just feels more traditional. Dd comes from a state school and is into drama, gymnastics and dance. No idea about anything else at this stage (other than she’s clearly able).

I’m not worried about the commute as such but reading threads on here it seems a big consideration. Her school is a 10 minutes walk from home so maybe I’m a bit naive?

I guess what I promised her is a consideration but equally if I thought jags was hands down the best choice I wouldn’t hesitate. She got into 2 other schools and didn’t even consider them as not comparable academically to jags and Putney. So it’s more that I don’t know either.

what would sway you in terms of gcse choices? At the moment it just seems they both offer the typical subjects, sciences, foreign languages, English,
maths. What am I looking for?

thanks so much

Get her to do a one week trial of each commute, there and back.At the right times.

Am I right in thinking that PHS is significantly cheaper than JAGS? I’d always factor that in too.

I agree with PP that she should try the commute. I’m not sure the one to PHS is a dealbreaker - a 40 min walk in pissing rain with a school bag, a violin and a hockey stick doesn’t sound much fun when she could just be sitting on a bus.

It is useful context, thought telling her that she could go to Putney if she got in (as per your first message) is rather different to telling her that you would consider.
Beyond the obvious (Mathe, English, sciences,...) there are different GCSE options (eg, wider range of languages at JAGS) and more flexibility at PHS (you can choose only 2 sciences). As mentioned above, sports are different and so are the extra-curricular (given that she likes gymnastics, the cheerleading club is likely to be up her street).

Most people look at the schools as a whole offer - academic standards, curriculum, sports and arts offering, commute, vibe,... and ease of commute (given the impact on quality of life and potential engagement with extracurricular and friends). As to the weight of each factor, it depends on what matters to you / your DD and how much of a difference between schools)

Others have mentioned that the reality of commute is rather different to a number on a page - hence the advice that your daughter does it in "real life" conditions and several times to see how reliable (or not) the 45 minutes estimate is ... to give you an example - we had an offer from Emanuel and, on the offer holders day, our 25 minutes door-to-door journey became 45 minutes thanks to bus delays...

Transport wise I would not want to rely on a 40 min walk or you driving her for years. Do you have a public transport or school bus option for Jags?

Putney you say 50 minutes bus but is that in rush hour?

As pp says Jags has cheerleading & tumbling clubs which would be equally fun for someone keen on gymnastics. So not sure that swings it one way or the other. Also if gymnastics or cheerleading is a big factor then check when the clubs are - some schools do most of their gymnastics before school which is a pain if you already have a long journey (and impossible if reliant on school bus).

I do think Jags is quite traditional and leans heavily towards medicine and other “established” paths. I don’t know about PHS.

Friends wise you would be quite centrally located for Jags contingent as there are lots from Wandsworth direction as well as Dulwich and eastwards. You would be an outlier for PHS - could be a pain for weekend meet ups.

My daughter went to JAPS. No pastoral care. All about exam results. Nobody cared about the child. Thank God she didn’t progress through JAGs

do you mind me asking where she went instead? Happy to PM me if you would like to share in private. I'm afraid that I'm a bit tiger mother-ish in the way that I am looking more at exam results and outcomes than anything else and think life is tough so you better get used to it early :)

My daughter went as a boarder to Benenden and had a fantastic experience. She went to Edinburgh University and now works as a Political Rick Underwriter in the City of Lon

@lg1040 Your DD is clearly a bright and motivated girl - arguably, once you have a critical mass of high performing kids and the right ethos, that is what matters. Both PHS and JAGS are well above that threshold and somewhat similar in terms of results / ranking. Hence why PP have noted other differences, including on extracurricular and logistics.

On the pastoral side, worth noting that there is not a trade-off with results (especially when considering results more holistically) ... in fact, considering the welfare of girls usually means that they can be the best version of themselves and perform well, either in exams or, more crucially (imho), longer term, . As for "life is tough so you'd better get used to it" surely you would not want an unnecessarily tough environment (or challenges just for the sake of it) and/or bullying to go unaddressed (in the same way that you would not want it for yourself in the workplace). We are not talking about creating a cocoon, but about a caring environment. You may want to speak with people with recent direct experience of the school you are minded to accept - for all it is worth, we know lots of families at PHS, most of them are very happy; we know less at JAGS (a handful as opposed to dozens at Putney) and they seem to be very happy too.

So she was at JAPS about 15-20 years ago? Hardly fair to give an opinion on the current school (and the senior school at that) based on such an out of date experience.

Just to weigh in on the JAGS pastoral thing - I think the name changed away from JAPS about five head teachers ago, so I’d take those views with a pinch of salt. The school is really focused on wellbeing these days, both in rhetorical and practical terms.

Thanks everyone really appreciate the feedback. Notwithstanding what may be slightly out of date experiences with JAGS/JAPS there's just so little between these two that we are struggling to decide. Other than the commute. Does anyone who have a child at JAGS currently have any feedback? My daughter is quite sporty but not into team sports so that worries me about JAGS. But equally I like the fact that they seem to have more students heading to oxbridge and seem to be doing more of the "harder" subjects...

I had friends who went to JAGs and they loved it. Bustling school community, very academically focussed but with more of an 'edge' than Putney.

I would however worry that with her heart set on Putney, your DD might feel a bit resentful having to turn down the offer and not start Y7 on the best foot?

I would think the commute would be tricky in Y7-9 but if you're quite set on character building this will stand her in great stead for the future.

The GDST does give you a massive financial security blanket also.

Hi, just want to say I sent you a PM. My daughter had exactly this same decision to make 4 years ago and chose jags, so I wanted to give you my first hand (and current!) experience of it.

Friends daughter was at Jags and left after GCSEs 2 years ago. Very academic child but was not impressed at sports provision. At all. My DS was at DC. He also got offers from Trinity and Whitgift - both fab schools. We had said he could choose and I was so relieved he went for DC. The commute to Croydon is horrendous. Think of all those Saturday matches….as well as the daily commute. His older DB was at DC too. It was so much easier for us… a 20 min ride on the P13, although he walked and rode bike on occasion. So arguments both ways.