kings/alleyns/westminster/st paul

[Csummer]

DS has been fortunate to receive offers from several excellent schools, and we’d be happy with any of them. He’s currently in a co-ed setting, so we’d hoped to continue that way, but he seems to prefer King’s or St Paul’s. We’re also unsure about Westminster given the smaller campus and the 13+ entry point vs others being 11+.
We live in Wandsworth/Clapham, so none is especially close, and we’d likely rely on school transport or possibly move in future.

Any perspectives from this forum on how to think through this decision would be much appreciated.

I’d definitely go to one you can reach relatively easily on public transport!

SPS for sure. Unless you’ve got a younger daughter in which case probably Alleyns.

Westminster is going coed and not just girls at sixth form.

From a social perspective it’s quite helpful if a large chunk of the cohort live near you. IME loads of Alleyns kids live in Wandsworth. A few Kings boys. Not sure there are many St Pauls or Westminster pupils in the area and their cohort is likely to be more N london than S London I suspect.

however if you’re contemplating a house move this may not be relevant!

Thanks. no we’ve got a younger son actually.

Def Kings rather than St Paul’s if in Wandsworth ( and actually even if you weren’t…).

yes, that’s why we are torn. Westminster used to be our first choice but after school visit I’m not entirely sure. DS thrives in a well-rounded environment and tends to do best when it isn’t overwhelmingly high-pressure. Above all, we want him to be genuinely happy wherever he ends up.
That said, it’s difficult to walk away from a school that is both highly prestigious and co-ed

this is great point. thanks! If we move it will still be south west London for us. Didn’t know that St. paul’s cohort is also N london?

Thanks! May I know the reason behind for kings?

My DS will be taking his King's offer. We didn't apply to SPS/Westminster because we wanted a more rounded culture rather than a pressure cooker. King's felt like a great environment for my DS, who is very smart but not a genius, good at sports and very social and calm. SPS and Westminster felt more like competitive hotboxes to us. Obviously exceptional schools, but just not for us.

@stayinalivestayinalive can you expand on why a no to SPS?

It wasn’t a No to St P, just that I’d choose KCS over St P. I don’t have DCs at either but know families at both. All mainly happy. KCS just seems to produce slightly more rounded boys and has less completely OTT parents! Also know a few who’ve left St P due to bullying. I’m sure things go on at KCS as well though. Either fine- just go with your gut!

We had this choice last year (minus Alleyns as didn’t apply there). It was a very tough decision. We live in west London so Kings was just too far a commute even though it was probably my favourite school. DS made the choice for SPS over Westminster in the end. If co-ed is important it’s worth seriously considering Westminster, but remember it is the most expensive of the list too! And I wouldn’t underestimate the importance of the easiest commute.

There’s a lot of commentary about Westminster on forums from people who don’t actually have children there. I’m a current parent at Westminster, and also a parent at two other schools, so I’ve been through this decision-making process more than once. I do think it’s important to hear about a school from families who are actually inside it, rather than relying solely on hearsay, and to keep the wider picture in mind — including logistics and overall family wellbeing. Also a good idea to have a longer term view - your child will be in senior school the applying for unis before you know..

They’re all excellent schools, but they’re quite different from one another, Westminster especially, given that it’s co-educational and right in the centre of London. From our experience, Westminster never felt like a hot-house at all once inside. We’ve found it to be very nurturing and patient, with room for boys of all sorts of interests and personalities.

Hi @insideview I was very interested and pleased to read what you say about Westminster being nurturing and patient.

May I ask please about the extent of streaming/setting in GCSE subjects, how transparently competitive it is (for example, how widely known test scores/rankings are) and what the Westminster experience is for children who are bright but not superstars?

We have a 13+ Westminster offer for our son, which frankly I was never in a million years expecting(!), and I have some niggling concerns about how he would cope. He's a lovely, bright child but by no means a genius - and in particular, he's not a natural mathematician who just 'gets it' as soon as someone explains a new mathematical concept. I am worried about confidence and self-esteem in a glittering cohort, where it sounds as though the teaching is very fast-paced.

(Just to add - very well done @Csummer to your son, fantastic offers!)

Thanks for all the replies and insights! Actually we are leaning more to Kings now given the environment, recent performance and location. I’m unsure if we are insane.. after all Westminster and St. Paul are more known and constantly the top2. Some final debates next days and if any insight please kindly share. Much appreciated!

Similar situation here. SPS edging it atm, better STEM and higher ceiling.. but also impressed with Kings environment. Kings results also understated due to IB. WUS fee are high but results not as good?

St. paul is great in many ways but not being co-ed throughout the entire secondary school bugs me a bit, although DS doesn’t see to care atm

If all things are equal we also prefer co-ed. Boys at St Pauls mentioned activites with SPGS.

My info is somewhat out of date though when I was in the loop Westminster was actually much less of a pressure cooker than St Paul’s. Might have changed of course. If you’ve got a real outlier I would seriously consider Westminster, it used at least to manage the true outliers better than most Oxbridge colleges. But that’s not most children of course. And as I said my experience of these places is from a while ago now.

The pressure cooker reputation (relative) at St Pauls is our main concern and holding us back.

Would anyone be able to share experience of being a scholarship holder at Kings? Is it purely honourary thing or provide additional opportunities?

It is fast paced but it is not a hothouse - at all! In fact it’s so casual and laid back, it’s virtually horizontal. It’s quite an odd experience as a parent coming from a quite regimented, state single sex grammar school it constantly surprises me - the results they get are almost as a by-product of the day-to-day education. I can’t quite explain it, but it is the very opposite of the teach-to-the-test which you hear about in so much of modern education. It really is a “liberal education”.

The student body is very diverse- both ethnically and in terms of neurodiversity. Uniform and other rules are very casual. Certainly the boys - and I know it will soon be co-ed - are allowed to be very independent and in charge of their own learning.

There are reports every 1/2 term and test scores are compared to the class average (so you will know that your child is scoring above/below average), but these are not published (I think Eton still publishes exam lists by name??)

There is very little streaming. At GCSE only in maths and French. And in maths you have to understand that even in the bottom set most will be expected to get 9.

Despite the fees, the parent body is not blingy at all. This is very much valuing education for education’s sake. It’s rather quaint really.

There is an air of scruffy/ disorganised/muddling-through about it all - albeit in an incredibly historic, academic, privileged environment.

There is also a strong theme of partnership and outreach about the school, which was originally founded to educate the poor. They have not cut back at all on their bursaries or partnerships or outreach with the VAT imposition. They share facilities and enrichment across the academic curriculum with a slew of state schools as well as continuing their sponsorship of Harris Westminster - and in 6th form Harris Westminster students study some A level subjects alongside Westminsters.

Thank you @NormanandNorma, that is really helpful! Is there much intellectual arrogance or sense of intellectual superiority among the boys and if so, do the teachers and housemasters take steps to address this? It seems hard to believe it doesn't happen from time to time, in a world where even the bottom set is mainly headed for 9s.

(Sorry to seem to be asking about lots of negatives. Fully appreciate that there are many, many upsides and it is a wonderful opportunity but just trying to get my head around some of the potential pitfalls...)

All excellent schools.
Alleyn’s - co-ed, high achieving, very broad and diverse curriculum (beyond just doing GCSEs and A-levels), so so many Alleyn’s pupils in the Wandsworth area.

DD went to Kings at 6th form with double academic scholarship - both financial. I don’t recall there being anything additional to that, but there are lots of extra curricular academic opportunities for all. We found the teaching, tutor system and extra curriculars were excellent at KCS.