11+ independent schools decision (LEH vs KGS)

[EtvaLee]

Seeking some insight for a difficult 11+ decision! We are currently choosing between Lady Eleanor Holles (Academic Scholarship) and Kingston Grammar (Music Scholarship).

We generally prefer Co-Ed and a less 'hot house' atmosphere but at the same time value intellectual and academic challenge. She is a budding scientist who loves Maths and Physics. We want to ensure she is academically stretched in STEM.

Our daughter is a keen swimmer, loves the idea of Lacrosse (Malory Towers influence!), and want to try rowing. We live in Twickenham and aren't moving.

Would love to hear from current parents at either school! Thank you!

I think if you’re going with what your daughter is after, LEH has to be it! But obviously if you want co-ed, a small problem (although thousands of boys about 100m away……) 😂.

Thank you so much. May I know if you are a parent of either school or an educator please? I am just wondering if KGS can also stretch pupils as much and nurtures equally academic pupils. Really hope I can hear some real experience…

KCS of course, but KGS no

LEH seems like a no brainer. My understanding is that they share some cocurriculars with the boys school next door such as orchestra so your DD would still be around boys just not for the academic stuff. Swimming pool, lacrosse, geographical location are great for you.

Oh sorry, sure. I’m a parent but of a year 6 child at LEH….but have friends with children in the senior school and have been a local for ages (going there myself / thankfully it’s changed!). So I can’t give you absolutely first hand and wouldn’t say it’s without its faults but given what your daughter is after, your location and that she got a scholarship, I’d definitely go with it…. (I have a son too so have considered alternatives!).

Thank you @Readyforseptember and @deanstreet . Are you current parents at either school, or do you have a connection there? I’d love to hear any more details you might have.
My leaning toward KGS is that it seems like such a happy, well-rounded environment. My DD is quite shy and currently avoids even looking at boys! I’m a bit concerned about her social confidence, so I feel like a co-ed, 'natural' environment might be better for her than a pressurized academic one. Would love to hear your thoughts on the social dynamic there.

Thank you so much @Aroundandabout ! Your first hand information is much appreciated!

I would go for KGS. My neighbour has two daughters . One in KGS and one in LEH. The KGS experience was far more positive. Personally, I would never sent my child to girls only school

Thank you @BlueMoonIceCream for your sharing! Appreciate that!

Hello @BlueMoonIceCream ! Thank you for your precious reply… I forgot to ask you a very important point to consider… May i know the reasons why you would avoid all girls school please? Did you have some experience yourself or hear from someone else? Really hope to know more! Thank you!

@EtvaLee

This is my very personal opinion and I appreciate that people have other view.

But since you asked I will provide a response but just to say, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings- it is not my intention.

School is not only about subject learning but also preparing to adulthood. The real world is not single-gender. It is an unrealistic social environment. In all girls schools, students grow up without learning how to communicate confidently with boys, work in mixed teams, handle disagreements with the opposite gender. Especially if they don't have male siblings. Co ed schools teach these skills naturally every day.
Attending single gender school can create social awkwardness later.
I know students from single gender schools who feeling nervous around boys, who are overthinking interactions. Co ed students are already used to this, so they adapt faster and feel more confident.
All girls schools can sometimes become more competitive and dramatic.With only one gender, small issues can grow into big conflicts.
Boys and girls often think, communicate and solve problems differently.This makes teens more open minded and adaptable.
In co ed schools, girls learn to speak up in front of boys, compete academically with them and
This builds real world confidence and not sheltered confidence.

Thank you @BlueMoonIceCream and I really appreciate your honest and detailed sharing! XXX

Hopping on this thread too! We are debating between offers from LEH vs KGS vs SHS, also living in Twickenham. LEH ticks a lot of boxes but the co-ed at KGS has us confused!

Hi @Sunnyday987 ! It really is a dilemma! What is your daughter like, and which boxes have you managed to tick so far?
I also need to think about my younger daughter, who is one year younger and quite shy and introverted. Ideally, I’d love them to be at the same school, and I suspect a less competitive environment would suit them both better. That said, I’m slightly wary about the idea of having to 'push' them myself if the school isn't doing it (given that KGS isn't known for being a hothouse).

I went to LEH (back in the noughties though!). I really enjoyed it from an academic point of view. Ended up going to Oxford, where I had an even better time. I think if your daughter is a mathsy / sciency type then there are huge advantages of all girls. Looking around at your classes, the best people at maths and physics will always be girls! In my year, so many people signed up to further maths a level they had to have 2 classes. I think there is actually research backing this up that all girls schools have more girls excelling in maths and physics. As others have said, plenty of opportunities to socialise with the Hampton boys if she wants, but if she doesn’t (I didn’t, was and still am a bit of a nerd and enjoyed university socially a million times more!) then there’s still lots on at leh for her.

DS at KGS and DD will be applying next year (and will also sit for LEH and SHS I would have thought!). DS experience has been fantastic at KGS so far and I can't rate it highly enough. I think the notion that it wont push your kids is probably wrong - from what I've seen, the academic pace has been there so far, they've now streamed them all for math's, and they have written assessments in every subject every half term for which they are expected to revise. Plenty of support for those who need it, and plenty of academic stretch as well.
Pastorally the school is brilliant, I cant fault it. DS is friends with lots of girls in his year, who are all lovely, normal and down to earth. It seems to attract a type from what we have seen - non alpha, kind, hard working, and down to earth. Obviously there will be exceptions to this but that's how I would describe all of my DS's friends so far, both boys and girls. Seems a very happy ship with overwhelmingly happy parents and staff - I rarely hear a bad word about it. Good luck with the choice and congrats to your DD - its a great choice to have!

@EtvaLee DD is pretty academic( as far as primary kids can go!) and loves science and reading. She also is creative and interested in art/drama/music. Participates in sports, but isn’t very sporty, does enjoy swimming though.

from a practicality point of view the distance to LEH is a lot easier for us. Also the coach helps with busy work lives! Dont know if DD is ready to take public transport by herself to KGS yet. Maybe a couple of years later!

That is so kind of you to share @graceinc22 thank you. I can only hope my daughter thrives as much as you have!

@secondtimearound11plus , it’s heartening to hear your son is so happy at KGS. I was curious to know what prompted you to look at LEH and SHS for your daughter too? I'd love to hear your perspective as a current KGS parent, though please don't feel pressured to answer if it's too personal!

@Sunnyday987 , as she won't be cycling (I'm far too protective for that!), she'll be a regular on the buses. We're near Waldegrave in West Twickenham, so there isn't actually much in it time-wise between the two schools.

@EtvaLee happy to share. We will sit LEH and SHS as I feel like it’s too risky to just apply to one school! SHS is very close to us and she could walk there, and LEH has lacrosse and swimming and lovely grounds which she’s keen on, and we like both options. Also we don’t want her to feel like she has to go to the same school as her brother and has some choice as well. Ultimately though, I think they are all great schools and it just depends where each DC feels most at home if that makes sense.

Thank you @Sunnyday987 and I wish your daughter the very best and a successful 11+ journey!

I’d probably go with KGS. That said, if a girl is very strong in STEM and wants really high standards and strong peers, I do think at some point a co-ed environment can make more sense than staying in a girls’ school. My eldest is at a girls’ school at the moment, but I’m planning for her to move to a co-ed for A levels.If I had the chance to choose again, I would probably have chosen a co-ed school for my eldest at 11+.

KGS’s maths competition results aren’t particularly strong overall, although they did have an IMO gold medalist. Personally I don’t think schools “produce” IMO gold medalists — that level is really down to the individual student and the family support behind them. I did notice in the KGS school magazine a photo of the head holding the gold medal with the student. I can’t really imagine something like that happening at somewhere like St Paul’s Boys’. In fact, some of those top boys’ schools seem to be moving towards publishing less about individual maths competition results for various reasons.

KGS also has a VEX robotics club and they’ve just taken part in a robotics competition, which is nice to see. Even though both my children are girls, I do think girls’ schools often struggle to match co-ed schools in areas like STEM and DT.

Before you decide, I’d ask KGS how many girls they have had in their A level further maths class (and maybe physics or other subjects your dd is interested in) over the last few years, compared to the number of boys. When we looked around about 5 years ago it was quite unbalanced and I was concerned that the culture might mean it was unusual for a girl to do further maths, and that she’d need to be confident in her abilities and in being in a boy heavy class in order to choose it.

My daughter is at LEH on an academic scholarship and it has been an absolutely amazing experience for her. She's in Year 11 now and the amount of opportunities she's been offered and the encouragement to challenge herself have exceeded my expectations. I cannot say enough good things about the school. The attitude is always 'have a go'. It's not a hot house but they do push the girls to fulfill their potential. I've never felt like the pressure is too much though, even now in GCSE year.
I have friends with kids at KGS and they also love it so nothing bad to say there. But if your daughter is the sort who wants to try everything and who responds well to a bit of challenge she will love LEH.

I meant to add! Although LEH is all girls they do do quite a lot of stuff with Hampton next door. In my opinion it's the best of both worlds because the academic stuff is all single sex, which has been shown to benefit girls. But my daughter has tons of friends in Hampton and they do musicals, concerts, quizzes and (further up the school) trips with the boys, so it's not like they never interact with the opposite sex. In sixth form all the enrichment lessons are delivered co-ed which I really like.

This is such a helpful perspective, thank you @AmyL1975 . I'm particularly interested in your comment about a co-ed environment making more sense for a girl who is very strong in STEM.
My daughter is a real 'little scientist,' and while she’s also musical, her heart is in the labs. I’d love to know more about why you feel the 'standards and strong peers' are better for girls in a co-ed setting like KGS compared to all girls schools? Do you think the girls in KGS find a genuine 'tribe' of science-focused peers, or is it still quite a male-heavy environment in those top-tier Maths and Physics circles?
Also, in your experience, are the girls at KGS encouraged to take leadership roles in clubs like robotics, or do they tend to stay in the background?
I'm trying to decide if the 'all-rounder' vibe of a co-ed school provides a better stretch for a high-achieving science girl than a more traditional single-sex route.

@Flossietea It is so reassuring to hear such a positive review of LEH, especially regarding the 'have a go' attitude and the lack of hothouse pressure. I’d love to ask a bit more about the academic schoalrship experience. Are the scholars activities a weekly commitment or more project-based throughout the year?
I also wanted to ask about the commitment and expectations attached to the status. I've heard anecdotal stories about schools 'stripping' scholarship status if certain benchmarks aren't met or if the student doesn't choose specific subjects for GCSE. Has that been your experience at LEH, or is the scholarship fairly secure once awarded? I'd love to know how they handle that balance of encouragement vs. expectation. Thank you so much