GCSE options due today help!

[nextchapterplease]

DS is struggling at school. He enjoys it at the moment thankfully but he is in bottom sets where applicable and we can see from homework and assessments he is not really keeping up.
School is thankfully a good one and are being helpful. I suspect dyslexia but we don’t know that yet so it’s possible that may not be the cause.

What I am struggling with right now is navigating GCSE options without making him feel discouraged and in any way lesser than his peers.
He can choose 4 or 3 with some ‘ blocks’ ruling out some combinations .
If he chooses 3 this is to enable him to take one fewer GCSE and do extra maths and English support. This is the route school are recommending and we support that in principle.

He has decided he doesn’t want to do this and wants to do as his friends are - with French, PE, food tech, and DT as his choices.

If he goes with his choices I am sure we can later drop one and pick up the extra support then.

my worries are -

1. if School are offering the support route are we mad to turn it down
2. the support route might turn him off school as he ends up doing multiple maths and English lessons additional to his peers - will this be a slog? If he ends up diagnosed with some SEN, dyslexia does a more varied teaching style work better than just more of the same at school ( we could afford to tutor if needed)
3. Do the more practical subjects and provide light relief or a coursework slog?
4. Is French mad if he struggles with English- he loves the teacher at the moment and enjoys speaking up in class with her .
5. maybe minor but what impact does it have if we over rule his choices - he is pretty determined and got very upset last night when we discussed it all.
6. he is seemingly better at Geography than French but can’t do that alongside the other choices - are either one easier for someone who will possibly struggle with longer questions ? ( older DC is doing it and it’s pretty demanding !)
7. am I overthinking- does any of it really matter if our primary focus is to keep him happy at school and engaged with learning ?

one final point this is harder as he is young to be doing options - young for year , and doing options in year 8 he cannot imagine what year 11 will feel like yet .

Thanks for reading my long download and appreciate any insights and experiences .

@5gymbabe Some schools choose in y8 and then have a 3 year KS4.

Interesting this is what DH said to me at lunchtime do we say - you need to put some extra work in and if you don’t want to do it at school we can try to support with it at home.
meanwhile we need to pursue dyslexia screening ( depending on what school says) to see if that changes what support will be most effective .

Would he do a level french? If not then not a huge point with the extra work.
As hes y8 only i would let him

have you not been given predicted grades?
We got some a few months ago (y9)
And its still hard choosing. Mine has asd/adhd and wants history, spanish art and RE.
Mine is also young in year. Its frustrating as our school enforce geo/history. But the ones we want would be possible alevel choices.

Before you said he was y8 i had been thinking he sounds young with wanting to pick for teacher and friends.

Yes, the usual step when needing support in English is to remove all other language subjects.

He is young , summer born so only 12 and not a mature 12, he doesn’t have a clue about what GCSE will feel like let alone thinking about beyond.
My older DC was a breeze and I didn’t even need to get involved when hers were done in year 9 so am finding this hard.

Some teenagers wouldn’t want to do extra work in year 9 and 10 because they can’t see why they’d have to start studying so early for an exam in the future iyswim. If his friends are higher sets then they may not start revising until year 11 and some boys downplay how much they study anyway which might not help how motivation to work with the tutor and do homework for them year(s) earlier.

i understand that he might not want his friends to know that he needs support and not picking support will help that denial but they will find out during the course - especially if the friends are studying higher and he’s studying foundation. Having a tutor is still a sign of needing support but it would be easier to keep it private if he wanted because the only people who would know are you, him and his dad.

Half way through year 8 is very early to make decisions about your facility for languages. At my school, languages are almost universally everyone’s least favourite subject and have the worst results (I taught one student who got 8 9s and a 5 in French). We have many parents begging us in year 10 to let their child drop the language (we don’t allow). I’d definitely take the support. DD did PE and food tech and I don’t remember the coursework timescales clashing particularly but she went on to PE A-level and would have taken food tech if it were an option. It’s a shame about the geography, which I feel
is more accessible to a wide range of students.

Honestly as a SEN parent who has gone through options twice with another to come next year, I would say speak to the school with regards to course content. My Son has taken DT, Food and PE this year and has had very little written theory work. My friends son is at a different school and in DT and PE has had a very heavily written theory based experience. Both schools are using different exam boards and ours is more of a btec style whereas the other schools courses are more like GCSEs.
Everything else would be down to you, your son and school to decide because only you know your son.
But honestly if it was me again with mine I'd prefer my child was happy at school rather than forcing them to do something that they don't want to do.

Also my eldest did extra English and Maths rather than getting the full options choice and he hated it! It was just him from his friendship group and he really didn't get anything out of it because he resented the lessons so much.

He's resitting them this year at college and he's much happier, but still resents the fact that he wasn't given his choice of lessons - because at college now he's not only resitting his English and maths GCSE but also studying the 2 GCSEs he was forced to drop and says he's wasted the last 2 years of his life!

I know he’s not keen but I’d be likely to encourage the additional support. Maths and English GCSEs are key for any future education or courses he’s going to want to do. If the school is recommending this I’d be inclined to try this route. However know how difficult it can be to persuade teenagers when their friends are doing something different.

But he has to resit anyway, despite the extra provision?
How does he imagine he’d have done better without it and taken two extra subjects?!

I’m a French teacher and examiner, and the subject is marked more harshly than many GCSE option choices. If he loves it, then he should carry on with it, and just accept that he might not get the best grade, but he’ll enjoy it. Food tech, DT and PE sound like good choices; they’re practical snd useful skills, and less academically challenging.

PE has a lot of theory in it, I know a few who have really struggled with it. My daughter did really enjoy the theory side though! It’s not an easy ride at all.

Secondary head of department here with 20 years experience. If school are recommending additional English and Maths you’d be absolutely mad to ignore it. They can’t facilitate this for many and will prioritise those who genuinely need it. If he passes nothing else he needs English Language and Maths. I get that he’s worried about being different, but there are no guarantees he’ll be in the same class as friends anyway. I honestly think you need to step in here and direct him towards the additional English and Maths and have a very grown up conversation about what happens if he doesn’t pass them. If he doesn’t get these his choices at college will be much more limited and he’ll end up re-sitting. This isn’t about fitting in, as difficult as that is. It’s about making the most sensible choice for the future. The other advantage is of course one fewer GCSE to be working for/revising for. Now that many GCSEs are 100% exam the exam season is more gruelling than ever. If he struggles anyway, one fewer GCSE will boost his chances in all of them because he won’t be spreading himself too thinly.

Thanks allots aol done now.
DS had a chat with head of year today who then phoned me to discuss the choices and although I feel very conflicted and have heard loud and clear so many of your comments that we would be mad to say no to the extra support the teacher said it’s important to give him a voice in it and that it’s much easier to opt in to it later on than opt out so that’s what we will do for now.
DS is really happy and we will keep a close eye until Christmas and then review if needs be.
I really didn’t expect so many replies so thank you to everyone - I will be looking more into dyslexia next.

French is tough! My son was in top set in year 8 but by Christmas year 10 wanted to go down from set 2 to set 3 so as not to do the higher paper. And it's still a hard slog! Wish he could drop it. Its great the school are so flexible.

if you can afford private dyslexia assessments that is really worth doing.

May vary from council to council, but my understanding is the dyslexia screening in school isn't the same as a formal diagnosis. It is mainly a computer based assessment. If your council is one that funds a full diagnosis then stick out the process.

If you think he may be dyslexic, But the council won't fund full diagnosis then look on the dyslexia association website for an approved assessor.

We were given a contact name by the primary school. The person used to work for the council when they still did diagnosis themselves. They ( or one of the team) also went into local schools. The assessment took about 3 hours, but was split into two sessions. The report also made recommendations for support. The primary school were used to seeing reports from the same person. DD had one of her team of tutors for a 1-2-1 session for about 40 mins each week. Worth every penny for the progress that was made. Dd went from hating having to read, to being a book worm. Results in school improved massively in primary.

The school should be able to request exam access arrangements such as more time if it can be demonstrated that it is required. This can be regardless of diagnosis, and will often need an assessment being done in school, to meet the requirements of the exam board.

Year 8 seems early to choose, to start options in year 9. I know of other schools that do the same, because they spend time in year 9 learning subjects they are taking exams in, instead of subjects they won't continue with. This may be beneficial to your son- it could mean they can take a bit longer on topics and get a better understanding.

We were told to think about what they enjoyed, what they were good at, and what would help future job routes ( if they know what they want to do).

The school said not to pick based on teacher or friendship groups, because those could change.

If he is definite he wants to take the extra one, instead of the extra school support in maths and English, I think I would let him. The teacher being supportive may help. If the situation changes he could look to drop one, but can't add one back in. We were told by teachers that because words aren't learned phonetically in the same way as English, dyslexia doesn't always cause impact on leaning a language. May vary from person to person though.

If you can afford a tutor it may be worth going down that route instead. Paying for one means you can try and find one that your son builds up a good relationship with- he may enjoy and get more from session that way than being forced to do it with a school teacher.

We let dd choose. French was one she considered, because she enjoyed it, but it didn't make the pick. She chose other subjects that she both enjoys, is good at and are relevant to the work area she is thinking of. All the options chosen have a high coursework content, which takes some pressure of the exams themselves, but may create pressures elsewhere.

We are in Wales, where Welsh is compulsory, so still taking a language.

I have heard it said before on MN that MFL is marked more harshly than other subjects at GCSE. I just looked at AQA and referenced a few different subjects. A grade 9 in French in 2024 required 85%, compared to 73%ish for history, indeed; but maths required 91%, Eng lit 85%, drama 84% and those less academically challenging subjects PE and food, 82% and 84% respectively. DT was almost 90% for a 9.

So I am not convinced that French is marked so much more harshly that all other subjects, if by that people mean that the GBs are higher. If they are talking about the mark scheme, yes there are a lot of questions where only one answer is correct, but there are still open marks to be won in speaking and writing.

And I would definitely dispute that food and PE and DT are academically less challenging. For me, PE GCSE would have been a total non-starter. As would DT. French tho was straightforward. It’s all about playing to your strengths, as far as you can.

Anyway @nextchapterplease I agree that the chance for extra support with Eng and maths is surely worth taking. Even if that means he has to drop French (sorry my earlier posts assumed he could drop any subject).

ETA: sorry OP I cross posted with your last message. That sounds like a workable way forward. All the best to your DS.

This is simply not true. Everyone studies a language at KS3. Learning a language strengthens literacy skills and improves knowledge of English too.

The boundaries will move slightly year on year depending on how hard or easy the cohort found the exam. It’s not the case that it’s marked differently, it’ll be that students on the whole found the exam easier so the boundary will be higher because they don’t want too many grade 9s.

Thanks @Talkingfrog for taking the time to share all that - at the moment we are waiting to see what school say from their screening ( I don’t even know what was included in this yet !) and then hopefully we can work out our options - we will pay if we need to.

If that's a reply to my post about % GBs yes for sure I am aware of that.

In fact (I have looked over the years) if we ignore years affected by Covid (2020/21/22) they don't move that much. French is around 200 marks (out of 240) for a 9 for 2018/19/2023 as well as 2024. Which is as it should be since the exams are moderated to be of equal challenge across the years.

Anyway apols @nextchapterplease that's a bit off topic. Hopefully your DS will get the support he needs (and accept it!)

I absolutely think this is the right choice! Speaking as a parent of now two children who suffer with emotionally based school avoidance (EBSA), who are both autistic, the most important thing for children to learn is that they are happy!
I was very academic and passed all my GCSEs well with very little effort, however my children struggle far more academically. My son is still at primary school, but he is very unlikely to be able to pass his English and Maths GCSEs as he is already so far behind, despite lots of support. He excels at other subjects and is clearly never going to choose a career that involves a lot of writing/calculations. He can read and can write using electronic devices that help with spell checking.
I remember being at school and whenever anyone mentioned a calculator the teacher would say"well you won't always have a calculator on you!" and now look at us - we are nearly all walking around with calculators, dictionaries etc in our pockets!
Whatever options your son eventually chooses, please remind him that nearly any test that means anything can be retaken at a later date if needs be.

I would strongly advise against doing all three of PE, food tech, and DT given that he is already needing extra support for Maths & English. These 3 options are all very project heavy and I would only think it was ok to so all three if the pupil was already very secure in Maths & English. It's no disaster if taking project heavy options knocks a potential 7 in Maths or English down to a 6. It's a big problem if it knocks a potential 4 to a 3. I would suggest he picks 2 of those 3.

Yeah, no worries your little shit is out and about! Your problem is our problem. I’ve no doubt your little shit has Shakespeare I hate you.