Two languages at GCSE

[zippygeorgebungle]

Hello DD at a good, standard northern comp. Good at languages, motivated and predicted 8s and 9s across the board so far. But choosing GCSE options and seems really really unusual to do two modern foreign languages at our school. Almost all do Spanish which they start in year seven but French is only started at year nine so quite late. She has done a term and a half.
Is doing two a really bad idea? School said it was fine and encouraged it but when I asked, only five out of 200+ in year had done two this year and I think they were bilingual at home in one of the two. Thanks for any thoughts.

Thank you for your message! You said exactly what I hoped. If we start the Latin gcse (and I mean we as I have always wanted to do it) but the actual gcse seems too onerous, well, not much lost and a fair bit gained hopefully! Love love love classics.

DC’s secondary offer 2 additional languages (to GCSE if desired) as extracurricular activities- so a really keen linguist can theoretically do 2 languages as options (out of the 3 the school offers) plus two more! I can only think of 1 pupil who took advantage of this….

I am aware of the concerns around native speakers stealing all the top grades in MFL quals but please don’t worry about this at GCSE level @zippygeorgebungle. In no sense whatsoever is native speaker ability needed for a grade 9. I promise you this (and I speak as a speaking examiner – which would probably be the area where a native speaker would excel). It’s even in the exam spec – native speaker fluency is not required. If your DD hits the AOs and has the ability she can get a 9. I have seen a number of native speakers come a cropper in MFL exams (tbf more often in A level than GCSE – but I have known it in GCSE too) while a well-schooled and able non-native can gain top marks for sure.

I note from a quick google that in 2024 8% of French GCSEs and almost 8% of Spanish GCSEs were grade 9, compared with 5% of geography and 6% of history. It's hard to find a reasonable subject comparison (I imagine more weaker students take hist and geog tbf) but given the Ebacc focus in a lot of schools that seems fairish.

Obvs it’s not easy to get a 9 in MFL GCSE – but it’s not easy in any subject. My DD did a lot of work to get 9s in her two English GCSEs (btw she is a native speaker of English haha).

I think it is more of a concern at A level but I still maintain that a) native-speaker-hood is not a free pass to an A-star and b) non-natives can absolutely access the top grades there too.

I did three MFL for GCSE, two for A Level and the same two with another as a subsid for degree. If you are a linguist and love languages it’s normal - or was a while ago. It sounds like your DD is a linguist. She should go for it - french tuition might help though.

I did French and German at my school. The German was with a German speaking nun as no German teachers there. Wasn’t that hard.

Grade distributions are interesting... 35% of Latin students got a Grade 9 for example. Which probably indicates only top students take it rather than its easy.

Yes indeed.

Latin let’s face it is now pretty much offered in grammar schools and private schools and not all of those I would think (caveat: I have no stats for this – but I don’t know a state comp that offers it) plus even in those settings it is likely to be taken by someone who loves languages and has an aptitude for it. No school is going to mandate it the way DS2's school did for MFL, with some 2s and 3s among its results in consequence.

I did 2 languages for GCSE. My kids didn't have that option unfortunately. I think it's unusual as MFL teaching is in decline, not been supported for a long time plus Brexit etc. It's such a shame. DS is doing Spanish A level and loves it as he's very talented linguistically. May go on to do linguistics.

It's not easy but if you're bright and prepared to put in the work it's a subject you can do well in.

If anyone is interested, this the website where you can find how students did comparatively in different subject combinations.
(Its is 9ne thing I've noticed in my DDs school statistics... it has a low number entering EBAC, but well above average scores for those who do.... probably due to MFL not being compulsory and only those who enjoy it and do well in it select it)

Edit... link would be useful!
https://analytics.ofqual.gov.uk/apps/GCSE/SubjectCombinations/

Do you have any stats on how many French/German/Spanish native speakers there are in UK schools? I hadn’t considered there would be enough to sway the grades. I actively encourage friends’ children to take a language if they enjoy it and will do well. Would hate to be giving duff advice. Thanks.

I think that’s a fair summary.

9s in NFL were running at 5% ish prepandemic - the rise to 8% is part of Ofqual’s attempts to rebalance.

Apologies for any poor and outdated guidance - as I say, one of my DC’s languages was one with a small entry and v high native speaker %, and their experience was pre-pandemic.

(DD got 8s at GCSE iirc but A* at A level)

DS's 'thing' was languages. He did two at GCSE , plus Latin and Greek.

He took French, which he started aged 8 or 9, and Russian which he had only started 2 years prior at 14. He then took a third new language for A level.

If they have a feeling for languages and enjoy them they should be fine.

DC did French and Spanish at GCSE. Got grade 9s for both. We’re English and no foreign languages at home. But did 11 GCSEs so plenty of other subjects going on. Top grades across the board.

Not doing at A level as focusing on STEM. But really enjoyed languages and seemed to have a natural aptitude.

My son did 2, even 3 as he took his native language as well. he kept one of the non native for A level, and got an A producing very little work. it allowed him to focus on the other harder A levels (sciences). MFL are perceived as harder A levels and they are rather comprehensive in skills as well.
She needs to do what she likes !
Give it a go !

Go for it if she enjoys it. I did 2 languages for GCSE back in the 90s. Only 1 for A level but 2 would have been great.

I did two and actually had to do one of them at lunchtime.

I think that languages are never a waste of time and have helped me in indirect ways in my career.

DD and I are still ploughing through these but can I say a huge merci/gracias to all you incredibly kind, knowledgeable posters who have given us so much helpful information and thought. It really is so appreciated to have taken the time to help.

I did French, German and Latin for GCSE and it was absolutely fine. Doing two languages at A-Level was also very common, I dropped Latin but continued with the French and German. Obviously my languages weren’t similar enough to cause big confusion but most people studying French and Spanish didn’t have issues. Only one girl was a native speaker of any of the languages on offer.

I went on to do languages at university and the vast majority were doing Joint Honours in two languages without being native in either. A lot of us did one of our languages ab initio, meaning we started from scratch in First Year of uni and still found it fine.

My dd did 4 in 2024 (one as a twilight) & got 9s in all. She says once your DD gets the vocab & grammar, they will be the lightest of her gcse's, and the more languages you do, the easier they all become.
I only ever got the chance to learn French a 100 years ago at school, and I was rubbish - people who pick languages up easily fascinate me.

Good luck to your DD, its great hearing all on here who've done languages - its such a brillisnt skill.

Go for it.

However, whether French runs is likely to be dependent on enough signing up; they're unlikely to run a very small group. I would guess that in the cohort you asked about, there weren't enough takers to run it, hence the only pupils doing two languages were those taking their native language.

I suspect that the schools that do best on offering two language GCSEs are the ones where they start half the year group on each language in year 7. Then they will pretty certain to be able to run both at GCSE.

@lanthanum However if they start different halves on different mfl in y7, they might have difficulty getting enough to have a beginners class in the other subject later? In fact might be harder than in other schools as they would beginners for both mfl, not just one?

In a larger school, they often just get the whole of the top set (or two, if large enough) to pick up a second language in year 8. Relatively few will continue at GCSE, but hopefully those who do will have done enough to catch up with those who did it as their first language.

If they're not teaching a second language to whole groups in KS3, and just doing it from scratch in KS4 (perhaps with an option to start in year 9), then yes, starting the same language with everyone would be a better strategy.

DD's year had an interesting set-up. They all did language 1, then four sets (of six) picked up language 2 in year 8. In year 9, they had a choice of language 1, language 2, or both. They only had about 15 takers for each of the last two options, but language 2 did run for GCSE. Now they're only teaching one language at all - which must be particularly frustrating for the native speakers, who don't get to learn a new language.

They have run both every year for the last decade at least but just with a small French class typically of 5-10. Typically most of them are bilingual apparently, but a couple like DD just very enthusiastic dual linguists (or they said some were maybe bilingual but not in French but perhaps had grown up with another language at home so were already switched on and good at languages). A parent asked why - counterintuitively -the results for French seemed to be remarkably better than for Spanish which they began years earlier and they explained it wasn't really the same comparison as most of the year took Spanish whereas most of the small French class was bilingual or super keen to begin with.