11+ questions? Should we go ahead?

[HellybellyMelly]

Currently at a through school - small independent not in any league table but delivers decent results
DD happy/doing exceptionally well
Walkable commute
Affordable

But - im being swayed by the bigger, fancier schools who are in the league tables. Plus other parents talking about the 11+ makes me FOMO because my DD is strong academically and i dont know whether id be doing the right thing. She says she would like to try the exams just to see where she lands. Now is the time to prepare if we want to - but the only reason to move would be to go to a bigger named place

Nothing you've said indicates you or dd want to move.

Don't move a happy child.

For us it was about giving my very academic dd the best chance to thrive in a grammar with likeminded other girls. She utterly loves it (year 11) and her predicted grades are all 7’s and 8’s. The 11+ was stressful but I didn’t want her in a comp because she is like Saffy from Ab Fab and she needs her dork tribe (her words). I am thrilled with the outcome and she thinks her school is like Hogwarts.

dd2 quit half way through her tutoring and wanted to go to the local comp with her friends. She does well (year 8) and she’s happy enough but it’s not what I wanted for her. The 11+ is a huge undertaking you have to be sure that the child wants it enough to put the work in or it’s not fair in them.

Does her current school achieve some 8-9s in all subjects every year?

Will many of her friends leave if they get a place at the bigger, fancier schools?

Are you very confident that her current small independent school will still be viable in 5-9 years?

I agree with PP - 11+ is a huge undertaking. You will always hear stories of “my child did no tutoring or prep beyond a couple of past papers and they got into an ultra selective indie/grammar.” But this is very much the exception, most are tutored and some within an inch of their lives.

So I wouldn’t even consider it unless you and your daughter are happy to put in the work.

You could take the view you have nothing to lose as you’re happy with where you are. However inevitably there will be a level of emotional investment in the shiny fancy alternative, and it could be a hard and unnecessary blow for your DD
to be rejected by it.

We have a bright 10 year old who went to state primary. We looked at all options for year 7 and the good all rounder private through schools just wouldn't suit her just like the lovely middle-class area comprehensive wouldn't either; she'd still stand out too much. She's got superselective and less selective state 11+ places pretty much guaranteed and should have passed big name private too. I think it's right to give bright kids the option so I'd do some prep and let her have go then you have more choices and won't have any regrets. I've got a less academic younger child that would suit a non big name all through school but I still think we need to give her a shot at 11+ to make it fair.

I would say it does not hurt to try and you never know until you do. I never really thought much about it and knew my dd was capable academically, but we just never thought we would do it. Last minute changed our minds dd prepped for it and got into a top school. She is very happy there. During the process so many people said its impossible to get into these schools, but dd did so you never know. Try and see and if she gets in make the decision after if she wants to move.

If your dd actively wants to try,
the exam to be like her friends - why not?

Don’t tutor her - just give her some extra hard reading and quiz her on comprehension, and buy a few books of NVR and VR to practise on. And see how she fares!

My dd started some 11+ prep at home (state primary, not a grammar area but several super selectives) and hated it so we stopped and she never sat the entrance exams for the selective schools. Now she is so happy at our local state comprehensive school, huge bunch of lovey friends, predicted mix of 8s and 9s in her eleven GCSE’s, with a fair chance she’ll emerge with six 9s. A lot of luck involved but I am more than content with our decision to swerve the super academic schools.

So I’d suggest - approach with a light hearted “suck it and see” attitude, you’re in a beautiful position having a lovely school to fall back on (like us!)

There will be movement at Y7 purely due to people relocating etc but just two will be trying for the 11+. Both have extremely pushy parents and one child is obviously struggling with the stress. My DD is much stronger academically and an all rounder so makes me think whether to just try her out. Personally i have always been quite reserved/anxious to get out of my comfort zone so i didnt want this to influence her. Im also very aware of the commute - currently just a walk whereas any of the schools will involve coaches or 30min bus ride (thats one of the pref). Costwise i can just about afford this. However i get a small bursary and a bigger school 'may' give a bigger bursary

@LetItGoToRuin there are a few who have got 8/9 but its by no means a hot house, and is very much mixed ability. Here she stands out. The school want to keep her and have said that because of the mixed ability, the average is lower but that they did have a few students who did get top grades.

I think you should definitely try. Your child is academic and able so what’s stopping you? You should visit those schools
with her too, so she can get a good sense of what she’s trying for.
Most secondary schools have had lower applicants because of increased fees, so I would definitely try. Also kids from private primary don’t have to prep as much for 11+ as those from state schools.

This.

Especially the viability question. Small independent schools which don’t offer anything special are going to be financially at risk over the next 5-10 years IMO.

I would go and have a look at these schools with DD so you know what you're aiming for - you may be surprised when you see inside them. They will always feel different in person than on paper and you may get a strong sense that this is/isn't the school for her. The reaction I've had to actually looking at schools is always different to my reaction on reading inspection reports.
I'm one of those who didn't do loads of prep, but my DS is naturally bright (top of the class in his middle-class state primary despite being an August baby). We made sure he knew how to do VR and NVR (worked through a couple of books), did some practice papers online and talked a lot about exam technique. I think as long as she's familiar with the style of question and knows not to spend half the test on one question it's worth giving her a go. And if she doesn't get in, you can remind her that other kids have been preparing for years and therefore have an advantage.
I wouldn't invest a huge amount of time and energy if you have a lovely alternative.

Just sent you a pm.

I think you should try - we were in similar situation. We didn't do any prep or had no tutor- just practised for the exam formats. She got an offer from City of London Girls and St Pauls Girls and few scholarships from other schools. We are still unsure if we will move her but it is even worth to try to see their potentials!

Thank you all, this has been really helpful. Im hoping its a bit of an adventure for mine without the pressure of having nothing if they dont pass

past exam papers will be on the school website- but many are changing to an online equivalent exam with a different format- work looking at atom learning as well. It would be worth her trying and she will need practice and some prep - being at the top of a good all through might be best for some kids but in a class full of kids at a similar level might be better for others. Best of luck- I took the kids round the schools and they worked hard as they wanted to go.

Thank you @northlondon19 , I had a chat with a few parents at school and there are several trying, all of very different abilities so it made me much more inclined to try mine. However all are much more well off and tutoring hard. Costs banded about are £100 per session per child. I have the books, and the subscriptions and DD happily doing stuff daily. I just wonder if im missing a trick not tutoring!

Id add i cant afford to spend that much though may do so nearer any interview stage.

I would say if you can't afford tutoring to prepare for the exam, don't waste money on paying for interview prep! The interview is the easy part. I say this as a parent w two kids in top secondary independent schools. They came from state, so we had some tutoring to help prepare for the exam, as they did not cover some concepts in time for the exam. For the interview, I just made sure they were comfortable answering some general questions like what are your hobbies, favourite book etc. Basically, so they did not go blank if put on the spot and so they had it in mind already what to answer.

Agree with @Springtoday - but would go even further.

From my experience: interview prep is (at best) of limited utility and (at worst) actually a huge disadvantage.

With a tiny bit of (common-sense) guidance, what matters you can absolutely do, in a relaxed way, yourself.

Happy to discuss/help anytime - just PM me.

It might be worth shopping around - my eldest did small group tutoring which was very cost effective- my youngest had zoom meetings with his tutor which were less than an hour and in y5 he had pre recorded lessons plus a short 121 session which was also cost effective.

Hi @northlondon19 , I went with Atom and will probably pay a tutor for English closer to the time.

Best of luck - I used Atom for a short while to get more independent school test preparation and found it very good

@northlondon19 where its been useful is highlighting areas which were weaker at. Mine have no clue about algebra as it hasnt been taught yet (or whether it will be taught in Y5). I had assumed everything would have been covered but its not a prep school so i guess not. It's something i can easily teach thankfully. With English, its very different to how i was taught, and id like an external person to teach/tutor who really knows their subject. I think it will be useful whether they pass the 11+ or not, and will give a good grounding.

Yes - finding and plugging the gaps is never a waste of money and sets them up well for KS3. The other thing not taught in state schools is Roman numerals (or so I found) there are a few small areas that I was able to do myself. A good English tutor is worth it - they need to be able to write usually 3-4 well structured paragraphs on a planned story using different sentence starters and structures and a variety of language. My eldest would have 5 plots multiple characters and not be able to finish the story and my youngest would have written almost nothing 😂 my eldest only needed a term of English tuition my youngest needed a bit more.

Interesting, state primary schools are not allowed to do any prep at all for the 11+ but I assumed that one of the advantages of paying for an independent at primary is that they would be preparing them (they certainly do round our way!) Where are you based? Anyway we did tutoring in a group of 3 from her state primary school which was only £30 a week so much more affordable - and we only did it for eight months overall. Did the trick. In fact, one of the other girls got nearly full marks in the test.