Seperate or combined science at GCSE?

[Flooph]

My son is in year 9, and at a none selective private school. He is generally very bright, and due to do 2 GCSE’s this year, Music next year and then take 9 GCSE’s in year 11. Just to give background!

He currently really doesn’t enjoy science, I had cancer last year and he missed some lessons and not knowing blocks of info has knocked his confidence. His test results are currently about 80% so he is still doing okay, but not effortlessly which is what he’s more used too. He wanted to be a vet for a while, but doesn’t think he is fixed on that any more, and now is leading towards possibly psychology. He’s literally 13 though so this could and probably will, change!

School are saying he’s capable of doing separate sciences and he may find that in doing combined he is with a less able peer group. I just want him to be happy, but he’s completely torn about what to do.

I’ve decided to get him a tutor so that he can feel more confident regardless of which option he takes, but does anyone have any insight into what he should do? He would choose computer science as the other GCSE if he did dual award, which he is very interested and enthusiastic about, and so I’m leaning towards that being the better option….. but am I wrong?!

Will he be staying there for Sixth Form? Look at what the school will expect for the A levels he would want to do... psychology will likely need biology for example. If they expect Separate Science for Science A levels, that might be the decision made.

Dc1 did combined (went on to do science based course).
Dc2 and 3 did separate and also went onto do science based courses.
There was definitely a difference in how much science each week between the two courses so if not enjoyed it may be best to do combined. Can you look at a timetable for current gcse students and see the difference between the two (dc1 teacher showed them in class and it was actually the deciding factor).
Also it doesn't stop dc getting onto science alevels etc (at dc sixth-form they have to do some bridging work beyond what those that do separate do it equated to a couple of days of work).
We're just looking at university for dc3 in a science subject and what I've noted about some universities is if they want science at gcse (only a few) it gives a grade for either separate or combined.
I'd advice to go with what ever dc is happy with.
If they want to do computer science at alevel do they need to do it a gcse?
Have they done any taster sessions? These may be helpful (also an opportunity for them to ask questions).
Regarding less able students doing combined this can be true. Are they put in sets? How would they differentiate between ability? Surely they need to tailor the curriculum to all (not just the weakest in the class)?

There is no point in doing triple science unless you enjoy science (or need it for future STEM based options, which I hope also means you enjoy science ).

I'm confused about the school saying that he might be in a less able peer group if he takes combined - are they suggesting he won't be suitably challenged or taught the higher level material (which would be a huge worry and an odd thing for them to admit)?

How big is the school? My DD took combined science as a student who was capable of taking triple science, but like your DS, wanted to use her options for other subjects - she was effectively in a "top" combined set where all the students were expected to get good grades - however that might not be possible if the school is small.

3 Options ?
Do all three sciences, bit of tutoring to come up to scratch
Combined Science plus Computer Studies
2 Sciences plus Computer Studies

My understanding from the advice I've been given is that if you drop biology [weirdly for med and veterinary] it's the easiest to cover off if you later decide you want to do either of those at uni. Catching up to A level chemistry in particular is by all accounts a total sod.
Similarly, you don't have to have computer science GCSE's to study it at A level but specific schools may insist on it?

DD1 loathed chemistry so has done 2+1. Had no interest in med, dent or vet though.

In your son's shoes, unless he loathes one specific science he may be best to stick with it for the challenge and do computer science outside of school as an extra curricular if he is as advanced as you say.

I'm confused about the school saying that he might be in a less able peer group if he takes combined - are they suggesting he won't be suitably challenged or taught the higher level material (which would be a huge worry and an odd thing for them to admit)?

This will be because at this school, the only students permitted to do three separate sciences are the ones who do better in science tests. So the separate science pre-selects the most science-able students. There will likely still be some very able students in the combined science group, but all the less able ones will be in there as well, and most of the children who don’t like science and are doing the minimum work. So the chances are that by definition he’ll be with a less able peer group. He also won’t be taught some of the material - it’s not so much they don’t teach the higher level material, more they do slightly fewer modules. That’s the basis of the combined science gcse.

All I know is

I did dual.award but went on to do A level Biology and Chemistry.
We didn't have the choice for separate sciences

All the other kids seemd so much more advanced and already knew the work.

For the first few weeks I was drowning while the other kids who did triple science took it in their stride.

Many schools won’t let you drop any individual sciences - you can’t just drop biology, and do chem and physics for example. I have heard that some places let children do this, but I don’t think it’s the norm. This may be an England-centric view - not sure how it works in Scotland or elsewhere?

In my DC's school the top sets do separate sciences and the lower sets do combined. So presumably the school means that he would have to drop down a set if he wants to do combined? It's not a small school either.

Choose triple. He can always drop one early on if he hates it.

We certainly couldn’t do that (in England). DD would loved to have dropped Physics but wasn’t allowed.

Well, that was my point really - why have the school highlighted that he'll be in a less able group if he takes combined - the crucial point is whether he would still be able to get high grades (if he's capable of high grades). If it's linked to sets or the school puts huge pressure on more able students to do triple, that's different to students having free choice and would make the decision different IMO (I don't think you'd want to be the only child doing higher papers in a class, for example).

As I said in my earlier post, my DD took combined science and she was placed with peers who were equally able (who typically got 77 or higher in GCSE). So for her, it didn't impact her peer group at all.

That's why I asked about size of school - if the school is large enough, then there will be enough students for a class of "students who were academically able to take triple science, but chose not to".
It also depends where the school draws its boundaries for "can't take triple science" - at my DC's school it was only bottom 15% and they had a good proportion of students taking triple science foundation papers.

All useful things for the OP to find out, as every school varies (as nicely demonstrated on this thread).

Start with triple. If he can't cope, then drop to double/combined. But it sounds like he will be fine. Triple opens more doors.

This kind of thing may be quite hard for school to manage with timetabling and all his other options - he might need to end up switching all his other classes too to different groups to fit with a different timetable. Plus, the triple one is basically just a bit more science time per week to cover the additional material over the whole 2 years. It’s not much much harder and usually isn’t at a much higher pace, though it may be a v little bit faster pace than combined. So it’s not really that he wouldn’t cope I think.

I think one of the advantages of doing triple if they are able (80% in science is a high mark) is that come results day you end up with 3 different GCSE'S, double you only get 2 and they will be the same grade. So if say he's not so good a chemistry he could end up with 9,9,7, bit with double the weaker subject could pull down the average to 8,8. This could be relevant depending on what he wants to do going forward.

I had one DD at a non-selective private school and one at a highly selective private. The point that your school has made about a less-able peer group could be relevant if it’s actually school code for - “the kids who don’t care that much and mess around”.

Often in a non-selective private school double-science can be a bigger class that the triple-science group too. Talk to your son about his classmates. If they are inclined to muck around, does that negatively affect him or is he one of those kids who can tune it out? If it’s one of his weaker subject areas, he might need a more disciplined, motivated peer group and a quieter classroom atmosphere. Kids can usually work out who they’re likely to get in each set. They know their fellow students pretty well by year 9.

Everything that is on the double-science curriculum is also covered in triple science. The topics in double science are not easier, they are the fundamentals. It’s just double science because they cover fewer topics of each science.

Listen to what the school is saying about the “less able” peer group. At both my dc (different) private schools science is used as a proxy for banding for all subjects : brightest kids do triple even if they’re not destined for a level sciences and they are then timetabled for (eg) English lit and maths together.

by all means do combined but he will likely not be with the brightest kids for science nor for other subjects. This may or may not work for him. At DC schools we wanted them to be with the other bright kids as they were extended and had teachers used to getting the kids to a place where they could get 9s. The combined science kids were working to 6s and 7s in all their subjects