In-year secondary appeal

[Jules3256]

Hello everyone

Can anyone offer advice on this one…we are due to have our appeal heard next week. We moved 35 miles to a new home in the summer and oldest son has not been offered a school place anywhere near the 75 minute guideline. So rather disrupt him for a journey that’s no better he is commuting to his old school (and friends) in our home town.

Our case is built around a number pf points but could anyone explain this point and whether it’s even worth raising.

The school obviously say they do not have space as his year group (9) is at their PAN of 330. In research I have seen they regularly offer anywhere from 20-45 over PAN including in what would have been his Y7 intake. Whilst they may only have their 330 PAN, does the fact they offer over mean anything such as they could accommodate more?

Many thanks for any thoughts.

@Jules3256 if they're already 20-45 over-PAN then it potentially makes it less likely they can accommodate you, not more likely. It sounds like they're stuffed to the rafters.

However, the reasons for going over PAN should be explained in the school's evidence or at the hearing.

Have you appealed for other schools too, or just the most oversubscribed?

I appealed for a year four in year place when we moved and the LEA could not offer us any place anywhere at all. It was a right old carry on.

It was successful and the school was the catchment school. Not the best school if you see what I mean. I just wanted her in a school!

At the appeal I asked the bloke from admissions who came to say she couldn’t have a place what I was supposed to do if she didn’t get a place on appeal and he just said he didn’t know. My dd was out of school for three months.

The appeal was mostly about space, fire exits, chairs etc. in secondary it will be lab space, IT rooms etc. There actually was nonspecific for my dd either. She had no peg for her coat for example.

Are you saying that his year group was 20-45 over PAN in Y7 but has since dropped to 330? That seems unlikely although not impossible.

Anyway, the more relevant number is the number of places allocated, rather than offers made. It shouldn’t happen, but one occasionally hears on MN of schools which substantially over-offer, presumably because they’re confident that some places will be refused and the number of places accepted will somehow magically match PAN.

If the school is regularly admitting substantially over PAN, that might be because they’re adding an extra class to cope with demand.

It’s worth digging a little deeper to find which (if any) of these scenarios might apply here. It’s also worth asking whether any year groups are currently at more than the PAN. It’s not a clinching argument, but it might help you argue that, if the school has coped with additional pupils in the past, it could do so again (and, in this context, I think (say) an extra pupil per class helps you more than an extra class, which would be managed and resourced differently).

Whilst they may only have their 330 PAN, does the fact they offer over mean anything such as they could accommodate more?

No. It probably means they know that at least 20-45 kids will turn down the place (usually due to going private instead) so they can safely over offer. In areas with high private school use, some state secondaries know this will happen and so they over offer by a small amount, rather than waiting for the places to be turned down and only then offering them out to the waiting list.

It doesn’t help you argue that they could accommodate more unless there have been some years where they’ve got their predictions wrong and had to accommodate extras, and it was actually fine. You can ask about this at appeal - ask if there have been years groups over PAN, how did they manage and did it cause problems.

Argh. Just spotted a typo. That should have said “the more relevant number is the number of places accepted and filled, rather than offers made.”

Thank you all for your replies, it is hugely helpful and appreciated.

My understanding is the school regularly over offer. For the current Y9 they over offered by 20 but are at PAN. Y8 is 23 over PAN because the LA asked them to admit more due to it being a boom year. But they could argue they have been given more resources to cope? Y11 has an additional student over PAN starting this month but I don’t know why this has happened, for good reasons I’m sure. So they are clearly educated in their offering strategy.

Yes it is in an area where many will go privately.

I was hoping the history of over offering could be used to demonstrate they are able to go over PAN in the event everyone says yes! But sadly I don’t think this is true.

Thank you all again.

@Jules3256 Funding is per pupil. If they admit a whole extra class then that gives sufficient additional funding for extra staff.

Going 1 or 2 over in an existing class results in overcrowding, impacts learning quality and impacts teacher wellbeing. In some circumstances schools are mandated to go over their planned numbers, and a successful appeal is one of those circumstances. Others are mandatory EHCP or Fair Access Protocol admissions.

You need to focus on the strength of your own case because it will be weighed against the school case. They certainly won't think "because a previous circumstance forced the school over PAN they can cope with one more by default".

The school's case should explain why some cohorts are over PAN. If it doesn't you can ask at the hearing.