Withdrawal from Church Services in a CoE school.

[JamiLdn]

Hello
My son is in year 7 at a CoE school, we are Jewish. We are very happy learning RE and appreciate the importance of learning other and all faiths (we are not particularly observant) but the school has a twice yearly church service which we would like to withdraw from.
Has anyone done this and can share any insight on our rights to withdraw from the services only, and can share anything about the process / steps taken?
Much appreciated

Its really common. Just write and ask. Mainly they just sit out and read

I was a bit bemused by one school where the children who withdrew were given headphones playing a story as they didnt have anyone to supervise them. So they had to come to church but not hear what was going on.

Lots of church schools were specifically built to serve there local community regardless of their faith. Not all were intended specifically for those of faith only.

I was in a CoE primary school in the 90's and the two of the Muslim students sat out of church services and other various religious events.

If you don't want them to attend, I can't see it being an issue for the school. But I do remember these children being upset to miss out. Church services at primary school can feel like quite exciting events. Will your children be ok watching everyone else get excited about carrying a christingle and eating the sweets after?

Obviously it depends on how devout you are, but it seems a shame to exclude them from something fun because of religion. My reception son has just had his nativity in a CoE school. I'm not sure of all the children's religions, but some Muslim children definitely took part and had a fab time. I'm sure it hasn't converted them, they just liked doing something fun with their friends 🤷‍♀️.

Edited to say: sorry, I've just seen your updates. If he doesn't want to go I'd absolutely speak to school. I'm sure he won't be the first child not to attend and they will have options in place (that will teach me to go make a cuppa in the middle of posting!).

Thanks for this, now I need a cuppa ;)

You are just withdrawing him from worship it is completely valid he is not Christian he doesn't want to go to the Christmas church service, hopefully it goes ok i am sure it will though.

@JamiLdn like others, I respect your right to withdraw him, but there may be a middle ground he is comfortable with. You could ask if he could attend as an observer but not participate in anything he doesn't want to do, such as bow his head, close his eyes, recite or sing words he doesn't believe in. The school may say no on the grounds that other children may wonder why they have to follow the protocols and he doesn't, but it's worth a try.

I was an atheist at a Catholic secondary school and, in older years, just mimed the words and kept my head up. Faith schools often tell off small children for this behaviour, but not so much with older children - they wouldn't dare.

Thank you for this suggestion, he has said he is quite adamant he doesn't want to go. I had another talk with him this evening after hearing all of the suggestions and comments in this post, and he remains clear about it and would prefer to go to school even if the is one of the only ones / the only one in his year.

No one should try and persuade a child who does not feel that attending a church service is appropriate that they should. It is your right to opt out and the school should facilitate it.

Just contact the school to discuss/request, no point getting opinions from random strangers.

Just tell school and they’ll either put them in a different place or you can pick them up before the service. There’s loads of children that don’t worship because they’re not religious or a different religion (Jehovah’s, travellers etc all tend to withdraw from certain services). I think as long as they learn all the RE lessons and respect all religions then it’s fine. Other people feel differently and that’s also fine.

It’s fine Op, lots of children go to faith based schools near them because they tend to be the better performing one. Large percentage will be non faith. Just ask what alternative arrangements they offer for none practicing children and if your child could attend that instead.

Schools in Scotland where i live have "non denomination" schools" they are usually affiliated to church of Scotland or other Presbyterian churches for end of term services, so it isn't always faith schools that do these and kids have always opted out, I don't think it is a huge deal, one of my inlaws kids went a RC school because of circumstances and they didn't go to mass.

I work in a Catholic school in Scotland and all staff and pupils, regardless of religion attend all church services as a school, and for Mass the non-Catholic pupils and teachers (which I am one) receive a blessing from the Priest. If you have chosen to send your child there, or applied for a job there then the understanding is if you aren’t Catholic nobody is asking you to convert to Catholicism but the exception is that you will display respect for the faith.

I think it’s really important that your son’s wishes are respected. I’m a member of the CofE, and my children went to a church school. Part of the role of the church in a secular society is to provide freedom of conscience for people to worship as they want, or not to worship at all.

I hope that the school are helpful. Might be worth bearing in mind, that it might mean an adult missing the service to supervise him, so they might prefer that he was collected early from school .

You have the right to withdraw your child from acts of collective worship but it seems very odd that you would choose to send your child to a faith school that practises a different religion to your own.

Outside of London and ?Manchester, I'm not sure that there are that many areas with Jewish faith schools on the doorstep to choose? And as others have pointed out, in some places, the nearest/ most accessible school may be CofE.

Attending mass and participating in the worship etc is essentially practicing the religion.

In my area the catholic schools take on more than half non practicing children because there simply isn’t the demand even though it’s an outstanding school. So it’s quite normal for children to sit out mass if they don’t practice. It’s not disrespectful at all.

I was raised a Muslim and went to a C of E school. My father was very happy with me attending the various religious activities. We did the Lord's Prayer etc. I don't see the issue.

That’s you though. You don’t get to decide what’s acceptable for other people based on your own experience. We had a live band in my school playing the hymns during services. Some of the Muslims I know (including a couple of teachers) would have considered this haram:

It’s not about saying people will not take part. Its about understanding why they might not want to and allowing for that choice.

Well there is this, if an area only has CoE schools then what are parents supposed to do,

We are Jewish. DD had a best friend who was Christian so they chose to attend both Hanukkah and Christmas services together. We did a view a CoE school for her but one of the teachers advised us not to apply.

My small town has 4 faith schools and one non faith school. You cant just pick to go to the non faith school as its oversubscribed so you wont get in unless you live very close to it.

I’m not a Christian and went to a CofE school I pride myself on my hymn knowledge and generally out sing most people at services now! For me I guess I dont mind an act of worship - I don’t have to believe in that way of believing in God, or believe in God at all but for me it’s a happy, connecting, community event. It brings people together in a good way / with a moral message. So yeah I don’t mind for my kids at all as they too go to a CofE school.

Chag Sameach @JamiLdn

I'm Jewish and live in Scotland so all schools are either Church of Scotland or Catholic - no such thing as a school without a religion (maybe there are private schools that don't associate? No idea). My children do their Easter colouring and sing in the nativities and decorate Christmas ornaments and wear Chanukah jumpers on Christmas jumper day... but I have withdrawn them a couple of times for specific prayer events. They have a prayer group that meets once a week (you have to give your permission for your child to attend) and they have run 2 assemblies 'to bring the word of God' and my kids hung out in the nurture room with some of their Muslim classmates. No drama but I have no interest in my children being prayed over by a random group of religious parents.

I did let them go to the church service but it's once a year and at Christmas so more singing Christmas songs and my kids wanted to go. I would absolutely sign them out of anything they asked to skip, particularly at the age of the OP's child who is old enough to make his own decisions and take the consequences.

I promise any Jewish child in a UK school already knows they are different and has been told so many times. Being the only one of anything takes a sort of bravery that many can't empathise with so I would always support my children to manage this however they feel best about.

Absolutely. And that's you though. And you don't get to decide what's acceptable for other people based on your own experience.

When I was at primary school in the 70s, a boy in my class was withdrawn from any Christian activities (in a non faith school) due to his religion

No-one had any issues with it then and it must be even more usual now.