How to motivate in yr 11

[Spottyblobby]

15 yo son is in yr 11, been looking around local colleges & sixth forms for post 16 options. The majority are asking for grade 4/5 or above in English, Maths & at least 2/3 other subjects. Thing is, he achieved more than this in yr 10 mocks. He is now really deflated that this year means nothing, the work he has been doing means nothing, and he is wasting a year when he could have just done GCSEs last year & got on with life because nobody really cares if you get a 4 or a 9. He’s completely lost motivation to keep learning as he can’t see the benefit. I’ve been trying to reassure him that he’s still learning & developing skills which he will need at college/sixth form but you can tell his attitude has totally changed. How to get him out of this slump.

Bribery is very much discouraged on MN, but I'm a huge fan of it and it worked for my DS. He didn't see the point of studying when he knew he'd get decent marks anyway - as opposed to excellent marks if he put in a bit of effort. So I offered £50 per grade 9, and £30 per grade 8... nothing for anything lower. It worked (he's now doing well at uni) and he's admitted he wouldn't have bothered if he hadn't had that incentive.

are you on for 5 passes or more, fab, then you can do one of our level 3 courses/A level courses

I think you and him have misunderstood this. With the 5 passes he will be able to do a level 3 course. My DS is doing T level Health which needs 5 x 5s that doesn't mean the same college would let him do maths A level with just 5 x 5s .

I think you need to look again at exactly what the entry requirements are for the A levels he wants to do.

Thing is, he achieved more than this in yr 10 mocks.

Teacher here. Y10 mocks aren't usually all papers. For example, Geography is 3 papers but students were only set 1 paper for their mocks in Y10. If this is the case for your DS, then the only thing he has 'proved' is that he can get a 2 overall.

Another teacher here. It’s a very risky approach to assume that what you achieve in Y10 mocks is what you are guaranteed to get in the real exams. You’ve probably only learned half of the curriculum, for a start! Lots of factors at play: the papers can be adapted or shorter, as a pp has said they tend to do only 1 paper per subject, and they won’t have included all content by any stretch. For example in English, there are 4 papers across Lit and Lang. He has most likely done 2 max of these. In Lit he will be studying 4 set texts. He’ll only have been tested on 2 of these in mocks, most likely. I know it sounds risky but you might be better off leaving him to his unmotivated ways for the next set of mocks, and he might get a bit of an unpleasant/useful kick up the bum when he sees how he does! If he does well in those too, well, then lucky him.

Definitely check specific course requirements. Our local Sixth Form says the same... 5 passes. But looking at the details...
@
For Maths you need Lv4 English, Lv7 Maths.
For Physics its Lv6 Physics or Double Science, Lv6 Maths, Lv5 English.

If he wants to to pharmacy he should be considering chemistry at A level along with another science and possibly maths. Most STEM degrees usually want a good grade at GCSE maths if A level maths isn't taken.

He will get a nasty shock if he slacks now and scrapes through with 4s and 5s as he won't be able to do the A level subjects he wants to, or if the college allows him to he will struggle.

It sounds like the college open evenings were trying to appeal to the less academic and low achievers. It doesn't mean that just doing enough to get to the next stage is enough.

Maybe he should have a look at the entry requirements at universities for pharmacy and then the entry requirements for the A level subjects he wants to do.

I'm a teacher too and I agree with this.

Your son needs to think about KS4 as a preparation for KS5. If he works steadily this year, his year 12 will be much more pleasant, whatever he chooses to do. If he phones it in, he could easily find A-levels or BTECS overwhelm him because there is more responsibility on the student at that stage.

Or if he is genuinely a high achiever, why not look at some more competitive 6th forms? They will exist.

Having read more of the thread, I also think it’s worth reflecting on how much of your own ‘stuff’ you are bringing to this year. I am having to do the same reflection re my own dd who is in y11. How much of my thought process is about what she needs and wants, and how much is to do with own issues and academic background. 9s are wonderful, but not necessary and do require the highest levels of motivation and application from students. I’ve never taught a Grade 9 student who wasn’t highly self motivated and hungry for that success. Is it him that wants the 9s, or you? You simply cannot drive or motivate or nag or bribe him to get 9s if his heart is not in it.

I agree @ECT22
I think that motivation comes from emotional maturity and a lot of 15 year olds are just not emotionally mature enough to understand the implications.

DD has a summer birthday and her school used to do two short fat GCSE's in year 10 then the rest in year 11. The school devoted the same amount of teaching time condensed into one year for two subjects in year 10 and the same in year 11. The other 6 subjects were taught over the two year period.

This meant that DD sat her first two GCSEs at 14 and the rest at 15. It took a lot of cajoling and encouragement from me to get her to apply herself. By A levels she only needed a little encouragement, by the time she was doing her degree she was on her own and when she was at home during the Easter holidays from her post grad degree I had to keep telling her to take a break.

By then she didn't just want to pass, but she wanted to pass well.

If he is doing A level he will be far, far better prepared for them by getting high grades at gcse. And honestly, although apparently everyone gets in to uni with two Ds, we've found that the reality is entry grades are high at a lot of universities and they will throw in random gcse requirements normally a maths or english at a 6, and if you do badly at Alevel due to illness ot death in the family they do look at your gcse grade profile.

You child needs to see he isnt competing against his local school for the rest of his life, but all the schools!

Obviously I would be saying something different to a child who was working really hard to get 3s and 4s as there is always a path.

Edited to add i agree he doesnt need a string of 9s. But a 6 or 7 is better A level prep.

These will be his GCSE grades for life.

There is a huge step up from GCSE to A level and although a 4 is the minimum the college has said, realistically he needs to have higher grades.

How many classes are there the college? Some colleges will have multiple classes for eg maths. Does he want to be sat with people who scraped a 4 or does he want to be in the top set?

Kids who scraped a 4 won't be doing A-level maths. Or at least not for longer than a week.

Reflecting on our experiences of 16+ school and college visits this time last year:
College 1 - told us how many of their students passed their A levels and if they’d gone to university. Entry requirements, GCSE 4-5s.
College 2 - told us how many of their students got A*s, As and Bs at A level, the proportion who’d gone to Oxford, Cambridge, Russell Group unis. GCSE entry requirements no less than 6, including English and Maths regardless of intended A level subject choices. Far more aspirational.

All colleges are not equal. Pharmacy is a highly competitive degree and onward profession. @Spottyblobby
‘s son should really be looking at something a bit more aspirational.

Haha whilst he would go wild for the financial incentive I think my DP would leave me if I handed over money for just doing his school work! (Very different approaches).
I have had a long hard discussion with him about considering the long term implications I think it’s sinking in.

Thank you for some of the messages, we are looking beyond our local area to help him gain a bit more perspective, going to see a college across the county, very competitive, says on their website they expect 6s & above to do A Levels, our local one had no specific minimums other than a pass. It’s not one the school recommends and is a bus & train ride away so he may not opt to go there but I’m hoping it’s a bit of an eye opener to life outside our little town, they also have a very successful sports team in the sport he does, so hoping that gets him interested.

I also agree with @ECT22 - grade 9s are amazing but a student really needs to be motivated in order to do the work needed.

When you read MN H ed and Sec ed boards, you get the impression that vast swathes of the 15-16yo population gain all 8s and 9s, but the stats really don't bear that out, and of course it can't be the case anyway.

My own DC who did number grades got three 9s between them – and all were in subjects they loved that I know they worked hard for.

That said, he ideally will need grades of 6 and above in chosen A level subjects for sure; ideally 7+ for maths, science, MFL IMHO – as these subjects are more linear and build on knowledge already gained (in a way that history or Eng lit do not, or not so much – they are more about skills; if you study R&J for GCSE you won't be doing it for A level, but the French verbs you learned will be an assumed element of knowledge in sixth form).

But as many have said, it needs to come from him or it just won't happen. DS could have got a better grade in Spanish GCSE for sure – and I offered to support (MFL is my subject as I may have said) but he was just not that interested in it and knew he could get a 6 with little work and that would be fine. Did it grate a little that with his innate ability, he could have actually done some work and gained a higher grade? A bit, at the time, but really it's of no consequence now. But his 8s and 9s in chosen A level subjects, for which he did work hard – they were and are valuable.

Why not visit some maths schools / selective grammar schools, even if you won't be able to attend, so he can see for himself?
Or just show him this link: https://www.hillsroad.ac.uk/study-with-us/a-level-subjects/further-maths as an example.
I think I've seen a table floating around of A level result achievement grouped by GCSE results.

@Muu9 noblegiraffe posted one upthread.

Most colleges would expect a 6 and above in that subject to do an a-level. I would say getting only a 6 would put you on the back foot with science and maths.

I agree. DD's school asked for a minimum GCSE grade B for any subject they wanted to take at A level (new subjects excepted). She took her GCSEs in 2016 before the new grading system.