Curriculum review change from GCSE computer science to ICT

[UnambiguouslySensible]

I wondered if I could ask what people think about the curriculum review proposal to change from GCSE computer science to ICT?

DS is utterly devoted to his GCSE computer science studies. However, I had to remove him from school and home school him, in order to get access to good teaching. It was like that because of a severe shortage of specialist teachers in the school.

We've also noticed that the universities emphasise maths and further maths for entry to university computer science courses. They don't seem to mind whether applicants have studied computer science at GCSE or A level.

Conversely, there have been articles in the press saying that employers are having problems getting good coders. This is because the computer science graduates are great mathematicians but inexperienced at actual coding. The employers are then having to get them trained on the job.

I wondered if anyone had any thoughts on it all?

DS absolutely loves GCSE computer sciene and is unstoppable in his enthusiasm. He is only sad for those who won't get to study this course once it is switched to ICT.

I am going from what we were told Computing was when we were looking around schools. If it is something completely different under the same name, why not call it something else?

A curriculum review means that you keep the name but change the content!

@playthyme Do you know when they are doing this?
DD is in y10 and we might have enough time to start a different subject if it is going to change before she takes GCSEs next year.

In this case it is scrapping a whole GCSE as well though.
DD is autistic and I am panicking a little here.

It'll be literally years away.

If she's in Year 10, she's already doing GCSEs.
I could read through the White Paper (again) to check the timescales, but so could you.
And, if you're AI savvy, so could ChatGPT. 🙂

Thank you - I had to go outside for some air for a second there. Already having a bad day and this would have been the cherry on top.

It is so patronising to suggest girls don't want to study Computer Science but prefer digital making (or something). Lots of girls and women are interested in Computer Science.

Exactly, rather than look and see availability is an issue as well as the general sexism in the mixed state sector when it comes to STEM subjects.
Just an exercise in simplifying a hard GCSE to pretend standards are improving.
Why not keep something done well by even just 1% if it means that our computer science sector thrives and leads globally?

I think it’s for sept 28 so a change to GCSEs for current year 8s

My dd didn’t do it at gcse or a level but her degree was 50% overlap with computer science. Maths was key

Again I totally agree with everything @Rosmarino says about the GCSE CS curriculum. None of it could be cut. It's great as it is.

@FirstCuppa you're absolutely safe. Your DD will be through and out before the change happens. I'm in the same situation.

Thanks all for discussing this. I appreciate it. It won't actually affect us but we feel for those who will be affected.

Thank you for confirming that. I definitely felt a bit raw yesterday so sorry if I over reacted. I can't see it appealing to more being watered down, personally and think they are focussing on the wrong things but they've chosen their course of action.

Yes I agree. I think if they "broaden" it then they'll lose the enthusiasts but the technical requirements will still put off the other folks. I think the fundemental problem is lack of teachers.

I wonder if they would be better off giving the CS budget to the Raspberry Pi consortium and getting CS taught in schools by peripatetic teachers, the same way that Music is?

DH has come across plenty of Computer Science Graduates who can't code. I've had the same with graphic design tbh.

The problem isn't they can't get on a computer science course. The problem is that even computer science courses are crap and the only way to properly learn to code is to get off your arse and teach yourself on your own time anyway like he did.

These courses are not remotely connected or in touch with the workplace.

If you are doing a computer science course, get one with a sandwich year and beg in whatever way you can to get a sandwich course.

If you do a computer science course don't have the attitude that this means you can code. You still need to be working on your own time to learn because these courses aren't enough. It's a competitive marketing ATM - make yourself stand out from the crowd by actually being able to code rather than saying look at my degree / a level / GCSEs because it's meaningless.

DH always has a coding test when he recruits to check whether what's on paper matches with what he sees in practical terms.

Thought I would add that dd's comp sci GCSE (and google tells me all the other main boards) already teach about AI, algorithms and ethical implications. I think they also need to appreciate that some (state) primary schools do teach excel and spreadsheets/bar graphs, keyboard shortcuts to kids as part of their Power Point "show and tell" lessons in yrs 5 and 6 where she was doing scratch to do very basic coding. Surely continuing that teaching into Yrs 7 and 8 would cover a wider audience than making a flat GCSE for people who might not have picked it up in Primary? It seems quite outdated already.

@RedToothBrush Totally true.

Since DS came out of school he has been doing amazing things in code, that he'd never have got the chance to do if he'd still been in school and battling to keep up with all the other weird stuff they were demanding.

Being out of school has liberated him to concentrate on developing his own strengths and portfolio.

I hear what you are saying on sandwich years. I will think about that.

Very interesting to know that graphic design is the same. I didn't know that.

@FirstCuppa Yes I agree.

I think they've got a bit muddled tbh and it's a backward step.

Absolutely! While I know DD's primary was rated good, we don't live in a weirdly high achieving area like London and I can't imagine it is too different across the board nationally. They don't appear to have checked what is already taught and yes, massive step backwards. I feel sorry for the younger generation of coding enthusiasts, as you say.
The bit dd hated was learning about the components of first computers (again, this is her subject not mine so I am likely not using the correct vocab) where hardware was discussed. Maybe that would be a better branch, for computing engineering and mechanical side to be taught and cover into DT which they also see as an area for improvement.

@FirstCuppa We do live in a weirdly high achieving area and it doesn't help. LOL

We also found the hardware bit quite challenging. This attached book is a bit of a Godsend. Takes the topics and distills them to a summary of the specific phrases that are needed to work with the marking scheme. Really very helpful indeed, since the curriulum demands a very specific phrasing in order to actually get the marks. Just knowing the science isn't enough in this one, oddly, the kids have to have the specific vocabulary to express it.

Yes it was. And was a shame it should have been offered as well as CS

DS did GCSE and A-level comp sci, there was surprisingly little programming and a lot of very dull theory. The problem is they distill everything down so much that it just becomes tedious. He loved doing his A-level NEA where he could actually code and include some basic AI but the course itself was fairly dull. There were no girls in his A-level class (state).

He's doing a software engineering degree apprenticeship now and loves his work but the degree part he still finds very boring - and irrelevant. It's like it's all a bit out of date already and still very little programming which is mostly what his work involves - and no AI at all. He did a lot of learning outside of school though which is really what set him up - but he could have learnt so much at school on writing really good, clean code but no it was mostly just boring theory.

I think Scratch is amazing - but it's for primary school kids IMO. By 11/12 kids should be moving onto Python, they could use that for GCSE and then go onto using it for AI work for A-level. But I just know the AI stuff is going to be as dull as the rest - theories, ethics, overviews and no actual learning how to do it.

I mean they could make it fun - start by teaching them how to make games using minimax. That's what DS did for his NEA. Do I think they'll do that? No they'll just make it all as theory based and tedious as they possibly can and you'll come out of it not actually knowing how to do anything.

Putting ICT in with comp sci is also a terrible idea - are they trying to put anyone off doing it? Teach them ICT skills in years 7,8 and 9 FGS. DS's school offered both at the time in Yr 10 and he could have done both - but he really didn't want to do more spreadsheets.

OP highly recommend checking out software engineering degree apprenticeships for your son.

Thank you so much for that @UnambiguouslySensible - DD is dyslexic as well so new words can flummox her if she can't use them in context (very wide vocabulary but she avoids using them if she can't spell them, frustratingly!).

At her school they do Python as the "stretch" work when they finish the classwork, so she zooms through the lesson work and spends the majority of her time doing codes for things from what I can tell. They did coding for story based games in Y8. Again I got a bit lost when she was going on about binary and hexadecimal number systems (or something), so I sound like a luddite trying to get involved!

Elon Musk reckons AI is going to mean coders will no longer be required. Take of that what you will.

Is he really so sure the internet is going to kill itself? I can see AI coding making the internet an increasingly impossible space to use in any meaningful way. Already the fake news and poor results of AI at the top of the search bar are misleading for example. Seems like an odd thing for him to do, to self destruct his main platform for attention.