11+ so confused!!! Help!!

[wat2dodontkno]

Hi there,

My daughter is a very academic and highly motivated student — she’s performing well above her class level, especially in STEM subjects, but also across the whole curriculum. She has excellent reports. She currently attends a selective girls school which is among the top 100 schools in the UK for GCSE results, and she’s very happy there.

We live near two co-educational schools that rank within the top 50 nationally, but she absolutely doesn’t want to take the 11+ exam or apply anywhere that isn’t a girls’ school. She insists she wants to stay at her current school.

I personally think that if she did take the exams for those nearby schools, she would almost certainly receive offers — and possibly even an academic scholarship — but she says that even if she were offered a scholarship, she wouldn’t want to move.

Do you think I should try to persuade her to sit the entrance exams anyway?

Also, she has the potential to earn a academic , music art or sports scholarship at her current school. If she takes the 11+ exam for another school and her current school finds out (since the new schools would ask them for a reference), do you think that could put her at a disadvantage at her current school?

Thank you in advance

How old is she?

You don’t need a scholarship for an 11 plus grammar OP

it is state

I am assuming these are all private schools? What year is she in? If her current school is selective, when did it select and how?
ETA: I assumed bc of scholarships the Op was not talking about state grammar but if so then apologies. I still wouldn;t move her unless fees were or were going to be a big issue.

As long as the fees are not an issue, I would really not think about moving her; she is happy, achieving well, sounds as though the school is very good, and most of all she wants to stay there.

Are there other reasons you are thinking of moving her? Is the scholarship a draw (as in, wrt fees? tho as I understand it, scholarships offer very little in the way of fee reduction, more like the chance of extra activities like music lessons or sports coaching as appropriate). Is the journey to current school an issue?

Or is it more than you want her to move from top 100 ro top 50? Honestly (and I am speaking as a parent whose DC went to the local comprehensive, and who taught at similar) I wouldn't worry about that. Sounds as tho she will do well, and frankly a top 50 as opposed to top 100 school (whatever that actually means) is unlikely to afford her higher grades. Especially if she doesn't want to be there.

I must admit I am confused. You are saying " She currently attends a selective girls school which is among the top 100 schools in the UK for GCSE results, and she’s very happy there."and that suggests that she is in secondary school. Yet you are talking about 11+ exams.

11+ exams are taken in year 6 before kids go to secondary school

If she is already in year 7 she can only take 13+ now and her only path then are private schools. Until Six form choices of course later

What are the schools' progress 8 scores like? Given what you have said, I'm not convinced that the schools you are thinking of moving her to, would universally allow all children to achieve better than the school she is currently in. Presumably she is happy at school, so there's only any point moving her if you really think that she would do significantly better at the other school, like is bound to get higher GCSEs results etc. From what you have said, maybe overall the other school gets better results, but there doesn't appear to be anything to suggest that she would be unable to achieve her potential at her current school. Also school's results tend to vary a little year on year. If you move her, but then her current school or one of the other schools gets better results next year than the one you move her to, will you move her again?!

I agree actually @BlueMoonIceCream the opening sentence makes it sound as tho @wat2dodontkno's DD is already at secondary school (GCSE results, doing well in STEM subjects) but then she would not be looking at sitting the 11+.

So I assumed we were talking about an all-through private school that selected students at age 4 or 7, and thus the OP can already look at the GCSE history of her DD's school. It’s not super clear tho.

Hi,
She is private all through school - in year 6.

Why do you think she should move?

Can you afford her current school all the way through to 18 without a scholarship?

What’s it like pastoral wise? Are many of her friends taking 11+ for other local private schools or moving to state? Are some friends likely to leave at 13+? (It is worth having a chat with other parents.)

Many kids like the familiar. I read an article last year talking about a study that said even allowing for selection/intelligence, girls do better in single sex schools than mixed. I’d leave her where she is unless you have concerns/her friends might all leave.

Oh and additional question - does she have a male sibling that you are hoping to get both dcs in the same secondary school (for sibling discount, family harmony or logistical reasons).

First, I agree with a pp that there is no real benefit in moving from a top 100 to a top 50 school, unless there are other things offered by the new schools that your DD would value (eg better sports or music). Academically your DD can do just as well at either - they are all selective private schools and will have similar intake, ethos etc.

Second, I don’t think it will harm your DD’s prospects for a scholarship with her current school if she applies to new schools as well. If anything it may encourage a scholarship as they may feel the need to tempt her (you) to stay. Although I expect the scholarships will be offered 99% based on merit and only 1% on any strategic reasons like this. So most likely it would neither harm nor help.

If your DD is adamant she wants to stay at her current school, and there is nothing wrong with her current school (it’s just a bit less highly “ranked”) then I would go with what she wants. Why put her through a bunch of other exams for places she doesn’t want to go? I imagine she’s smart enough that she won’t try very hard for those exams anyway if they are not where she wants to be.

Why do you want to move her? If it is the scholarship thing, then her own school might offer her a scholarship if she stays. Top 50 vs top 100 is meaningless. You need to look at where your individual child will thrive. If you move her and she is unhappy, I can guarantee her grades will be worse. Start listening to you daughter!

If you can afford for her to stay at the current school then I’d let her stay- exam results are good, she’s happy and this is her preferred option. She can also try for the available scholarships there. I wouldn’t move her from one private to another just because it’s ranked marginally better when she doesn’t want to go. If, however, you’re struggling to afford the fees and a move is a financial necessity then that’s something else entirely.

@Chewbecca Because she is top of her class, doing extremmly well. She play 2 instrument grade 4& 6, she is in school hockey team, she loves art and drama grade 5 in lamda. Her maths is year 8 level her english is amazing.She could easily receive an offer from St Paul’s Girls’ School or Westminster, for example. If I’m going to pay for an independent school, I’d rather pay for the best one — it’s also beneficial for future reference, prestige, and applications for post-16 education and university. Am I wrong to think that way?

If she's happy and motivated where she is, don't move her. She will be just as capable of getting a grade 9 in any given GCSE subject at a top 100 (but not top 50) school as she will at a top 50 school. The grade 9s she gets won't be of a lower quality. Being settled, happy and motivated at a school is 80% of the battle. The rest relies on her own work but with that foundation, she should be fine. There's no point whatsoever in destroying that secure foundation.

Step back, and let her go for it.

Top schools do not automatically get you into the best universities. A state school 9 is so much harder than a top school one to achieve. If she’s happy where she is she’ll get the grades and probably much less pressure.

She sounds like a wonderful kid.

Sometimes you just have to step in as parent and make the final decision.

At age 10 or 11 she does not have the life experience to judge what another school can offer her. She’s still a little girl. Lots of kids have nerves around secondary school - if there’s a safe known option then of course that’s going to seem highly attractive. It is a brilliant thing for your child’s self-esteem to move school and discover they can succeed in a new environment.

In your shoes, I’d definitely be finding the levers (and bribes!) to encourage her to attempt the 11+ and move to a better school - if St Paul’s is an option why wouldn’t you try for it?

I would however NOT prep her for the 11+. She has a busy life already if she’s working on grade 5 and grade 7 music and grade 6 Lamda. And she sounds “ready” academically.

I would certainly be cultivating a “gotta be in it, to win it” attitude with your dd. I always talk to my kids about seeing the opportunities in life as opening doors - you want to open as many doors as you can, whether that’s making friends or passing exams - the more open doors, the more choice you have.

It’s possible that part of the reason she’s doing so well is because she’s happy and motivated at her current school. If she’s forced into a move she doesn’t want and away from her friends then that is a risk.

it’s also beneficial for future reference, prestige, and applications for post-16 education and university. Am I wrong to think that way?

Let's hope you are. So you think the prestige of a specific private school will benefit a student in terms of university applications?

Sure, if the teaching and general atmosphere are conducive to higher A level grades (which are massively the main decider); if the HE advice is more targeted; if there is support to apply to Oxford that might be lacking in other schools – but (and if this is not what you mean I apologise – but it's what you say) the prestige of the school having an impact, so saying "I go to XXX top school therefore I should get a place at YYY top university" well I really hope we have moved away from that.

As I said, and while I agree it's important to support a child to do well, in fact do the best they can, I would be loath to move a happy child, other things being equal (ie paying fees in this case, journey to school, quality of current school overall, friends).

Is she in year 5 @wat2dodontkno? I assume so - in which case grade 4 and 6 on her instrument is fantastic. She is doing really well. What are the actual benefits of the possible alternative schools? If she is on target for top grades, which it sounds as tho she is, then another school is not going to help her to get anything higher.

@clary its not just the GCSE grades! The oppornutinies that she ll receive! For example in city of london girls swimming team swam the English Channel recently - not every school even independent or top state grammar schools can offer that to child!

If I’m going to pay for an independent school, I’d rather pay for the best one — it’s also beneficial for future reference, prestige, and applications for post-16 education and university. Am I wrong to think that way?

I would say yes you are wrong.

The best school is the one your DD will thrive in. That doesn’t necessarily mean the most prestigious school.

Have you looked round these schools or are you going only on rankings? Westminster has been a boys’ school - it is only recently coed below 6th form and not yet fully coed all the way through - wouldn’t be my pick for a girl. St Pauls is quite a particular style of school - which won’t suit everyone.

What would your DD’s commute be like if she went to these schools? Would she have school friends living nearby or not - this can make a huge difference to a teen.

Having St Pauls or Westminster on a CV doesn’t make a difference for jobs or university places. If anything, top universities are cautious about taking too many kids from the same few schools (looks bad), so could potentially harm her chances. Post-16 education offers will be based on her GCSE mocks and reports rather than what school she has been at.

its not just the GCSE grades! The oppornutinies that she ll receive! For example in city of london girls swimming team swam the English Channel recently - not every school even independent or top state grammar schools can offer that to child!

OK so not just grades, the opportunities are better - you need to sell that to her then.

Bc after all a) (as a PP said) she needs to do well to pass the exam so she needs to be on board) and b) the school needs to be the one to make her happy.

Personally (and I speak as a swimmer) I have zero desire to swim the Channel but I assume there are other great opps, Tho it sounds as tho she has good opportunities where she is now.

I did say earlier I would not be thinking about a move if I were you; but you are not me and it sounds as though you are keen on these schools. Make sure you are clear as to why and discuss it with her. Go and look at the schools with her. See what she thinks.

Of course, a child can get grade 9s in all subjects at a state school, and they can absolutely go on to Oxford or Cambridge. But if the school doesn’t offer things like LAMDA, instrument lessons, DofE, ski trips, or opportunities to prepare for and enter competitions, that child might not be fully discovered and might not discover themselves either.

Maybe a very bright child could have become a chess champion if they’d had lessons and entered tournaments. So I’m not choosing the best school just based on GCSE results. I believe my child will get top grades anywhere. What I’m really thinking about is: beyond grades, what else will the school offer my child?

Actually lots of state schools offer ski trips and DoE – inc my DCs' and others I know. My DCs' school offered plenty of chance to enter competitions (like maths Olympiad and CS comps among others) and also offered music lessons. I don't think any of those things are very unusual.

But like I say, you don’t need to defend your decision to get your daughter to take the exams to get into these other schools on here – you do need to get your DD on board tho.