Henrietta Barnett or St Mary Magdalene Academy

[Magnificentkitteh]

Apologies, I already have a thread about choosing between Latymer or Henrietta Barnett and I think that we will put HB ahead of Latymer for mainly logistical reasons, but DD also has been offered a governors' place at StMMA and part of me is wondering whether it would be mad to put that as top choice, given it's slightly nearer and maybe a more "normal" school experience with friends to travel in with and living closer by. But most of me feels like HB must be so competitive for a reason and it would be silly to turn down such an opportunity without a compelling reason (it's a bit of a trek but nothing compared to what some people are considering & it is effectively one bus and a 15-20 min walk compared to a train 2 stops for StMMA ). Any thoughts would be welcome. DD seems to like both schools and is looking for guidance.

PS on the other hand DD is quite nerdy and occasionally gets picked on at primary, though she has a strong friendship group currently- perhaps she'd be more likely to find her crowd at HB? Wish I had a crystal ball. No siblings to consider as she is the youngest

St Mary Mags is a good school, but HB is really in a different league in terms of amazing results and a very full-on work ethic.

If your daughter is highly academic and is likely to get on well in an all-girls environment, I would go for HB.

Not a bad problem to have :) They are all good schools and she’s clearly a bright girl so will have good academic outcomes if she works, which I sure she will do. So it really is a choice about vibes and what makes her happy.

We went private in the end but did look at all the schools and have friends with children at 2 of them. I personally didn’t like Henrietta Barnett as it just felt pushy and pressurised. That may suit some children but not really a sell to us. I doubt the 15-20 minute walk would be a problem as children often meet and walk together.

St Mary Mags has the governor stream but that is a very small number and it has a much more mixed intake overall. It is massive - more children to find your tribe amongst but also more of the issues you find in a large comprehensive.

Of your 3 Latymer would have been our choice as academically robust but the children seem more rounded than HB and, I think, a stronger focus on pastoral. I personally prefer co-education. Most children travel to get there so again unlikely she’d be travelling alone if that’s the concern.

Thank you. Latymer isn't out of the running and indeed she may end up there even if I put HB as first choice as we won't know her final ranking until march. I've done some digging around the pushiness question though and heard plenty of anecdotes to counteract it. I think the girls may put pressure on themselves though and that may be catching which is a bit of a concern, but then DD may thrive in that environment rather than one where she is the outlier. I think ultimately she will have final say and she's leaning towards HB rather than Latymer but she isn't entirely wedded to one option.

Well good luck whatever you/she decide, and whatever is churned out on offers day. There is no wrong answer (agonising as this bit of the process is).

Hello - I was on your other thread (Latymer parent).

I toured SMMA a few years ago. It had a lot to recommend it: quiet, calm, well-ordered, traditional in terms of curriculum and approach. But for some reason I wasn't drawn to it. It was almost TOO quiet. Every single classroom had the students sitting watching the teacher talk while gesturing at a whiteboard. There was little evidence of creative energy (hardly any art on the walls) or spontaneity. Plus I didn't think the facilities were up to much.

But that's just my impression from one open day. It may well have more to offer. And there's a lot to be said for calm and quiet.

I do know, from a friend of DD's, that the SMMA kids get an awful lot of homework.

I also think the area around Latymer is a bit of a concern to bear in mind.

Yes weirdly this was my exact impression when I toured with dd1 four years ago. In fact it was dd1's even more so and she refused to sit the aptitude test. But four years on I toured again and it did seem to have a lot more energy and I wondered if the first tour was impacted by covid as there were a lot of things cancelled because of bubbles. May have helped that I toured on a liberal arts day the second time. I think the lack of green space and space in general for so many kids is a downside though and might be pushing me towards one of the others. Though really if be happy with any. Nice problem to have as you say. Thanks for responding.

Friend’s v clever child went to HB for 6th form - didn’t rate it at all as a place to learn - said the teachers were lazy, teaching mediocre, loads of kids had out of school tutoring. She LOVED it tho - had a happy sociable time, and went on to Cambridge. Def thought it rested squarely on laurels and on the shoulders of the parent group…

We have friends with DDs there now. From what they've told us:

teachers were lazy wouldn't agree
teaching mediocre yup
loads of kids had out of school tutoring yup

The parent group is indeed something fierce but... so are the girls. Not all brilliant but almost all very disciplined and hard working. Parents can only push their children so far... beating dead horses and all.

In a similar position we chose SMMA (and other parents have done the same) - so you're not mad for weighing it up.

There are the governors' place kids, plus likely same number again in siblings of those kids, who are often pretty smart too. And of course the usual number of bright sparks who live in catchment. The whole year does a maths and a VR test in June before starting, so the kids are set from day one for Science and for maths. A lot of the bright kids opt for Mandarin, so that ends up almost being like a top set too. The kids are set for other subjects later.

Leaving aside maths and English which all children do, the core academic subjects of biology/chemistry/physics + French/German/Mandarin all get 60%+ at Grade 7/8/9. We figured that if two-thirds of the kids in the classes are gunning for A's then that was enough of an 'A's vibe', in enough of the subjects we're likely to care about, that we didn't need to take it that step further by going to the grammar. (Likewise last year 13 kids got 7+ grade 9s at GCSEs - it just seemed to us a big enough cohort to be visible to lower years).

For us, it buys us an extra hour a day of family / activity time. I hope having a teen friendship group over this narrower area will allow for more / earlier social independence. For our child, we thought being part of a smaller cohort of bright kids would best help with keeping their confidence in their abilities high. Co-ed was our preference. At that time the info in the OFSTED reports was more appealing for SMMA.

Not particularly advocating here, just thought listing some of the factors that were relevant to us might be useful. We're very happy with our choice. The environment feels nurturing, lots of positive reinforcement and good comms from the school.

All the best for many happy school years ahead - whichever postcode you end up in!

Hi, sorry to hijack your thread @Magnificentkitteh but a quick question for @Daisydaisydoohdahday if I may please - from your and your child's experience of SMMA, how tough a transition would it be for a child coming from a smallish, single-sex private prep who can sometimes be a bit on the shy/sensitive side?

We are in the (happy but unexpected!) position of having a guaranteed governors' place and my thinking is similar to yours: if there's a regular cohort of 10-20 kids aiming for straight A/A*s then clearly no reason - from a teaching quality or school culture perspective - why our son couldn't be among them. And 7-8 mins' cycling vs 1hr+ on a coach to an indie...or even 30-40 mins on a tube to a closer indie...is a lot of time over the next 5 years. (We don't have any other HB/DAO/QEB/Latymer-type state options in the mix.) Plus, he liked it on the tour and is keen on co-ed.

But I do wonder whether I am underestimating how tough a change it would be for him.

Sorry, should have added - very well done @Magnificentkitteh to your daughter! Fantastic choices to have.

Thanks @TarteTatinRevient and no need to apologise. I can't answer your specific question obviously but just to share my perspective anyway, my dd1 moved from a small one form entry state primary which is tbh quite a bubble to state comp and the transition was quite large for everyone. Year 7 was quite tough but by year 8 she was happy and said she was happier than at primary as the bigger and more diverse cohort meant more chance to find your crowd. There are certainly plenty of clever kids who work hard and have high aspirations, even in her normal comp with no selective streaming. I'm quite a fan of state education in general and wouldn't discourage you, whatever you may hear on other threads.

That's very helpful @Magnificentkitteh - and yes, agreed re state. I am a big fan of being closer to home (was a bit taken aback to find out that 1-1.5hr journey times are par for the course for some indies), learning to rub along with a wider mix of kids and just generally being in less of a rarefied bubble.

FWIW re your comment yesterday on energy, I did a morning tour of SMMA back in Sept and also felt it had a nice vibe. The tours during a normal school day are nowhere near as "full on" for energy as the set piece open evenings/afternoons but still...saw kids chatting happily while walking between lessons when the bell went, playing dodgeball in the hall, lots putting their hands up in what looked like a GCSE English Lit class, pictures from previous shows outside the theatre that looked fun, etc. Also really liked the Head and the way he interacted with the pupils.

Anyway, maybe see you there for the June streaming tests!

I know a lot of very anxious girls in these highly selective environments. Personally I wouldn’t put my child through that. You can get fantastic results elsewhere without the eating disorders, anxiety and depression…

Good luck OP! I’ve also been following your threads with interest and I think wherever your daughter goes she will do amazing!

sorry to ask a silly question but what exactly is a “governors place”. Is it some kind of award?

It's 18 places (used to be 21) set aside for kids who scored the highest on a "language aptitude test' (aka VR paper), which are given irrespective of distance.

@TarteTatinRevient they seem quite focused on trying to make it not feel too big / overwhelming. The 180 is split into 10 smallish forms. They have 3 sessions a week with their form so that seems to speed up getting to know that little group (and two assemblies a week - in Y7 those are just for Y7, so also not too big). They run a house system, which I think is partly to help the kids feel part of something smaller, and everyone in your form is in the same house as you. Y7/9/11 have a different lunchtime slot from Y8/10 so there's never everyone eating/playing at once. And the head of Y7 somehow learns all the children's names before day 1. From the schools we saw it's the one I would pick for a quieter child coming from somewhere small (doubly so if it meant skipping the added challenge of a big commute)

In case relevant - there are always kids playing chess at 'chess club' from 8am (it's drop in, no commitment!). So if they play chess that can be a nice calm start to each day and a low-pressure way to meet people.

We also had a private school in the mix. I didn't like the idea of the school bus either! Friends whose kids do that seem to spend the whole journey taking photos / videos of each other. I suppose that's coming for all of them but we didn't want 1.5 hrs a day of it 'baked in'. Incidentally they follow the ISEB curriculum in Y7-8 (and sit the test end Y8) - so you might find as we have that they tend to be doing the same half-term projects etc as the friends from the prep!

Btw SMMA primary is single form, and so is St John Highbury Vale (another feeder) + the non-catchment kids are all in a similar position of not really knowing anyone. So, definitely a lot of the kids are all doing quite a big step-up together.

Thank you @Daisydaisydoohdahday that's really helpful and reassuring! I think chess club might be a hit (also the animal maintenance club).

Are the smaller form groups of 18 what Mr Reardon called the "guardian groups" on the tour? Presumably the actual teaching classes are generally closer to 28-30, at least up to start of GCSE courses.

Yes, the school coach sounds actually less preferable than, say, a long tube/train ride. At least the latter teaches some independence navigating public transport and your child might get a seat and do their homework instead of 1hr+ of using up their phone data on inane tiktoks...

I don't know anything about the schools in question, but I did an hour's bus ride to school and back as a child. It was fine, I coped, but oh God, the relief when I moved to a local school and suddenly got two hours of my day back, every day. It was so much easier and I was so much happier.
That was also a small private to large comprehensive and I thrived in the larger setting, for many reasons (it was also a much better school - failing private to outstanding secondary).

Yes sorry, the forms are what they call 'guardian groups'. Lessons are normal state school size, 25-30ish as far as I can make out. Just Mandarin tends to be a smaller class.

If your child is academically advanced she'll thrive at Henrietta Barnet and most likely find kindred spirits there.

Mary Mags is good school, but with mixed abilities children.

Many children end up in Mary Mags on distance criteria, not academic ability..

Which means, it's not the best environment for a gifted child (can be disruptive, bullying target etc).

Personally I wouldn't even think about sending her to Mary Mags if she already got a place at HB

Thanks, I ended up putting HBS as first choice and Latymer as second. She has a guaranteed place at Latymer so I guess she will be going to one of those.