High free school meals percentage - how does this affect the school?

[ElizabethTaylor17]

Hello. I am starting looking at secondary schools for my daughter for a 2027 start. We live near the Wandsworth / Merton border in SW London.

Looking at the free school meals numbers for the schools we are in catchment for, they are around 26-32% which compares to her primary school where the figure is 10%.

The 25-30% figure is similar to my own secondary school where I was bullied for trying hard / wanting to succeed at school and for being “posh” (I’m not!)

I know there will be a range of children from each background who want to work hard. But obviously my own experience colours the decisions I might make for my own children.

For those of you at schools with these levels of FSM, how have you found the experience?

Thank you

So the partially selective schools attract a mix of wealthier families who tutor their kids heavily, and families who maybe can't afford much tutoring but still value education and will still try to support their kids as well as they can. This means that the kids whose families tend to value education less are disproportionately represented in the remaining undersubscribed schools. And this is what can create problems with behaviour.

Correct

There are 6 undersubscribed state secondaries in Wandsworth, and maybe even more in neighbouring Lambeth

Lambeth is really impacted by falling rolls. Ideally you want to pick a full school as funding is based on head count.

@AwkwardPaws27 I’m totally aware of that! It matters though.

Don’t KS1 get free school meals still? Often eligible parents don’t bother to apply (despite schools trying to encourage them to due to extra funding). So it can means that primary schools have artificially lower figures (underestimated). Maybe consider this too.

Extra funding for FSM = more staff and resources

There can be benefits of attending a more diverse school too. Kids learn about differences and tolerance more too.

Positives and negatives. It’s not all so black and white. It might not mirror your experience. Bullying can occur in any school and some of the better schools may hide it more too and say they don’t have a problem. You never know. Probably best to look at (recent) Ofsted and ask around locally about what other pupils / parents are too.

Eligibility for FSM has carried forward since 2018 so any child who was in a household earning below about 7.5k at any time since then and claimed FSM, is still eligible now, regardless of their household earnings now. So for example, if parents split up and the children were living with a low or non earner for a short time before that parent managed to get back to work, then the children could still be eligible. Its quite a crude measure of deprivation as there are children who really should get FSM but can’t because the earnings threshold is set so low, but also some children whose families no longer need it but are still eligible. FSM doesn’t have to predict low attainment or poor behaviour.
Regarding absence levels, absence is almost always worse at secondary than primary. At primary school, it is the parent’s responsibility to ensure their child arrives at school safely and on time. At secondary most children walk or take the bus so there are more opportunities for truanting or for turning up late after registers have closed for the morning.

Hello @teacupzs to answer your questions: Wandsworth FSM average is 29% across the borough. The schools I think I would be offered a place at are St Cecilia’s, Ashcroft, and Ricard’s Lodge. I do appreciate many people go private for secondary in wealthier areas, but from my two local primaries the figure is only around 15%.

15% going private would still be about twice the national average

I got free meals as a child and my children get them now and they’re well behaved clever kids.
That said I’d avoid secondary schools with 50%+ and I know that sounds hypocritical but it’s not that most poor families are dysfunctional but it’s that most dysfunctional families are poor.

That said 25-30% is pretty standard

@Mollypollyholly it’s not that most poor families are dysfunctional but it’s that most dysfunctional families are poor.

This is probably true in general, but it is particularly true in the area the OP lives in, because most of the good state schools are partially selective

This is a point I hadn’t thought of, thank you. Although looking at all Wandsworth borough schools, it is only Graveney with lower FSM numbers (17.5%). The next lowest are Chestnut Grove / St Cecilia’s with around 29%.

@ElizabethTaylor17

But are the majority of people in your primary school the majority of the ones in 1m houses?

That area also has access to loads of schools with selective streams/grammars & catholic options.

Hello, yes there are lots of privileged families at our primary school. But 85% of them go to state secondary. Which I would assume is the 10% free school meal families and then 75% of the non free school meal families. Sorry if I am missing your point!

@ElizabethTaylor17 it is only Graveney with lower FSM numbers (17.5%). The next lowest are Chestnut Grove / St Cecilia’s with around 29%

Yes, but, even within the same level of income / wealth / deprivation / class / whatever you wanna call it, the families which value education more are more likely to be overrepresented at partially selective schools, and those which value education less are more likely to be over-represented at the undersubscribed schools.

It's not just about money, it's that looking into the admission policies of each school, looking into the type of tests, preparing your child for it etc requires the kind of interest, organisation and advanced planning which families that don't value education much tend not to have.

For example, for the Wandsworth test (a kind of 11+ test) you can find material onlline or at the local library.
For the music aptitude tests you can find videos on youtube for free.

But all of this requires planning.

That's also why selective vs non-selective, grammar vs non-grammar etc is such a divisive culture war, and there is no shortage of heated debates on the topic on mumsnet.

In other words: while I cannot quantify it precisely - call it just a hypothesis - my impression is that the OP should not worry only about FSM per se, but about the impact of partially selective schools in the area, which I suspect contributes to a barbell effect of very popular very oversubscribed schools, and undersubscribed schools which not enough families want.

@RandomNameGenerator123 It’s London. It’s a very different landscape for private schools. Far more go private in London because, overall, salaries are higher and often there are two high salaries.

Thanks all for your responses. I also now realise I am in a borough with high free school meals generally for senior school age. The average FSM figure for the Wandsworth secondaries is 41%.

@OhDear111 Sure, but I wasn't even focusing on private schools, I was focusing on partially selective STATE schools.
Wandsworth has 11 state secondaries .
Of these, 4 have partially selective places:

• Ascroft has a technology test
• Chestnut Grove an art test and a language test
• Graveney a kind of 11+ (the Wandsworth test)
• St Cecilia a music test

and 6 schools are always undersubscribed. Plus Harris Wimbledon in neighbouring Merton allocates some places with a music test Bolingbroke is the only Wandsworth state school which is oversubscribed and is not partially selective (most places go to feeder schools). So, of 11 schools in the borough:

• 4 partially selective and oversubscribed
• 1 non-selective (but relying on feeder schools) and oversubscribed
• 6 non-selective and undersubscribed

Families go to private schools from all over London.
But I am not sure how many areas of London have so many partially selective state schools.

OP , i would stay away from Ashcroft. Would you be in the catchment for Chesnut Grove or Graveney?

@ElizabethTaylor17 But which state secondaries? The ones with selective streams/grammars etc or the ones that are adequate. It doesn't chime with my experience as a SW Londoner & within education

Are you concerned there may be common children in your childs class?

The average FSM figure for the Wandsworth secondaries is 41%.

Where have you seen that? It doesn't make sense.

Which state secondaries do families from my primary go to? From the leavers destinations on the school website, the most popular choices are the schools I am considering: Ashcroft and St Cecilias, with Ricards Lodge also popular (but girls only).

But I am not sure how many areas of London have so many partially selective state schools.

In South London, Sutton - it has at least 5 grammars & then 2 with some form of selection.

Thank you. I do not really think Ashcroft is right for my daughter. Chestnut Grove we are too far. Graveney would be through the test only, we are also too far to get a distance place.

Hi @teacupzs i just did some (hopefully correct) rudimentary maths from the compare school performance website.

FSM numbers
Harris Battersea 63%
Ark Putney 57%
Saint John Bosco 54%
Southfields 48%
Ernest Bevin 47%
Burntwood 37%
Bolingbrook 33%
Ashcroft 32%
Saint Cecilia’s 30%
Chestnut Grove 29%
Graveney 18%

which I average at just under 41%

@ElizabethTaylor17 Ime it's unusual for a high number of families to pay 1m plus for a house & then chose a school like Ricards or Cecilia's. Their catchments will be around 2.5k which if you compare to Graveny which is normally 500/600 meters & you can buy in Graveney catchment for 1m.

Ashcroft is a different beast as their style is Marmite but they get excellent academic results.