Secondary school choice

[russiandol]

I’m going round in circles and could really do with some advice and wisdom here, especially from secondary school teachers and experienced parents.

we live in an area dominated by academy schools, all of which are pretty pressured and strict (it seems to me)

DD (10) is extremely well behaved and tends towards anxious. She’s very motivated by teacher praise and reward (and gets a lot of it). She has a slight learning disability in that she’s averagely bright but finds focus and process hard so can be slow to pick things up although she tries extremely hard.

Right now she is at a primary that is relaxed about things like attainment and uniform but quite strict on behaviour. They have been very kind to DD and she’s loved it throughout.

So what to make of the strict academies? She likes structure and routine, she’s not fussed about some rules at primary that other kids chafe at - for eg silence in corridors, silence at line up, sitting up straight and tracking the teacher.

But she would stress about not being allowed to use the toilet when she needs it, or getting told off for dropping a pencil. She would be utterly mortified to get a detention.

Part of me wants to smuggle her off to a liberal private school but most of me wants to give state a try and trust that the teachers will see how hard she tries and not shame or punish her if she makes a genuine mistake.

what would you do if you were me.

There’s no secondary school where you can leave a lesson and go to the toilet except in an emergency. In ten years of teaching I don’t think I ever had a student request permission to leave the class. Even the most liberal of private schools will have rules.

Did you visit the academies - did your daughter have any preferences?

My DDs school has a reputation for "strict" but they can get toilet passes if its obvious its a genuine need at an appropriate lesson point and no one has been give a detention for dropping a pencil.

Detentions are for continuous issues, not accidents. (So don't do your homework three times... detention but forget your book once its a warning)

OP, you might get better traction if you amend the title to clarify that your question is about the strictness of a school for a potentially anxious child.

Can you elaborate?

"Strict" means different things to different people.

I know families who are outraged that their little Johnny got a detention for not doing his homework - which to me seems perfectly reasonable.

Then you have cases of emotional abuse at Holland Park School and Mossbourne, on which I made a post last year

For me it's all about balance.

I have sn anxious child and having visited some of the 'no nonsense' schools there is no way on earth id send him there. Honestly I.think he'd have a nervous breakdown. I think you need to find out HOW strict it is. One of the ones we visited had silence in.the corridors st all times. Why?? And eyes tracking the teacher. If you got caught.lookong out the window once it's a warning and twice it's removed from the.lesson to learn online for the rest of the day in.the breakout room. I can understand that for disruption or defiance but glancing out the window? Not for me thanks

Hi @ParentOfOne Mossbourne is one of our options although I’ve ruled it out to be honest.

Do you have more relaxed options @Sexentric? All ours seem to be strict academies and also she would really like to be with her friendship group who are headed to our local academies

Yes thankfully we have 3 near us that are a lot more relaxed and "nurturing". Nothing like primary , obviously, but poles apart from the one I'm talking about. It's tricky though. There's another one that's also more relaxed but id never send my dc their either because the behaviour is terrible. I guess there's a difficult balance.
Do you think you child would be more anxious about breaking the rules by mistake and getting punished or by a lack of routine and order? I guess that makes a difference.
I'm SE London so less central than you which maybe helps (guessing your location because of Mossbourne)

Strict rules means there is better chance they learn something. The one thing to understand about teaching whether primary or secondary is that teachers want to teach. However this is constantly interrupted by low level disruption which means the teacher has to stop teaching to deal with people pissing about in lessons, aka behaviour management.

This is why there are strict rules on equipment so that you aren't having to ask to borrow a pencil or a pen. Again instead of getting on with work or listening they are not paying attention and trying to borrow a pen from someone.

Toilet breaks in secondary are a safeguarding risk which is why they need to stay in class if possible. A year 7 girl coming across a full grown adult sized year 11 male could be quite worrying for her. Dh was 6' at aged 14 and played rugby, he was huge and a big softie but people avoided him because of his size if they didn't know him.

The way to deal with all of this as a parent is support your child in being prepared for everything. That means having the correct uniform on. Mine had polo shirts at primary but for year 6 I switched them to short sleeved shirts so it wasn't something new in secondary. They also learned at primary to put their PE kit stuff straight into their bag as they took it off, not on the desk or bench.

2 pencil cases that never left their bag, they had extras at home so a pencil case was never left behind. Organise them for homework and keeping track of it and when it is due in. Lots of information on how to do this here from last year's posts and you can ask again.

I went to a very strict school and chose the same for my children. I also chose it because it had great pastoral care and it was incredibly supportive. If homework was missed they were supported in completing it whilst in detention but also were asked why they didn't manage their homework, what could the school do to help with that? There were homework clubs and lunch clubs for a wide range of interests.

We looked at Progress 8 and their usual cohort ability and the low ability children were very well supported to help them succeed. So although strict it helped motivate children see the bigger picture, that school ends and they wanted the best for them. It was a great school.

I feel like you absolutely get my concerns @Sexentric- she needs calm and order and would be miserable in chaos. But she would be devastated to be shouted at for making a mistake. I’ve asked for meetings with the relevant SENCOs so maybe that will give a better idea. But would all the teachers know her needs? How could they given the number of children.

@ForgetTheTomatoes The point is the balance.
Those who like schools like Mossbourne love to present a false dichotomy, whereby those draconian methods would be the only alternative to chaos, as if nothing in between could exist. That is patently false.

Getting a detention because you didn't do your homework teaches you that there are consequences. Good.

But a detention for cycling to school (Ashcroft in SW London)?
Because you wore the wrong kind of black socks?
Forcing kids to wear blazers in a heatwave?
Seminars on how to instil fear in children (Mossbourne)?
Detentions if you look out the window (Michaela)?
Forcing kids to stand up with their arms crossed (Michaela), a stupid habit they will need to unlearn in the adult world?

Those are unnecessary petty capricious rules. If you want them for your child, you do you, but let's not forget that Mossbourne kids went to therapy for this.

@russiandol , you need to look into the details.
When you say strict, what does that mean?
Are they strict but fair, or strict and batshit crazy, like in the examples above?

Just hearing that someone found it too strict is meaningless. There are families who think that nothing warrants any kind of detention or punishment, ever.

One of the ones we visited had silence in.the corridors st all times. Why??

Because some children might be overwhelmed or intimidated if there's a lot of noise in a relatively confined space? Especially if the pupils making the noise are older boys whose voices have broken.

Or perhaps there are some lessons still going on while pupils are moving along the corridors. Teacher doing double English with Yr 11 doesn't want to hear Yr 9 going past on their way to PE.

I think that’s wise advice @ParentOfOne but one of the things I find difficult is telling the draconian craziness from strict for a good reason and how do you find out? Mossbourne are very open about how they run things. Fine, but not for me. But others just talk in vague terms and I can’t tell how it’s all applied.

Honestly that was where I found AI useful. I put in 'which schools are better for an anxious child' and gave a selection and it searches all sort of sites j wouldn't have thought of and came back with parent survey results and extracts from FB and all sorts. I wouldn't rely on it alone but it helped as a starting point.

@russiandol You start by looking at the official policies of the schools' websites.
Ashcroft is very clear that bicycles are not allowed and will get you a detention.
Michaela is very clear that not SLANTing (look it up) is not tolerated.

You then continue by looking for informal information. Many of these schools brag about their policies and it's not uncommon to find interviews, reports etc on the topic.

You can also look at the official communication from the schools. When ca. 300 people (300!!) came forward, all with the same allegations of emotional abuse and seminars to instil fear in children at Mossbourne, the official reply wasn't that those things are abhorrent and go against the very values of the school - no, it was that the complaints were "vexatious". That alone speaks volumes about the culture of the school.

look at the overall size of the school.
in my view smaller is better (say 100 students per school year).
smaller school should allow a more personal experience with teachers knowing a bit more about each child.
although small schools; if too small are at risk of having to merge, and may have limited academic subjects and after school clubs.

State schools have much more accountability to cater for your daughter’s needs than private schools do. But, many private schools are still great at this. I’d look for a recent Ofsted (within the last year) with a good or better leadership and management judgement, or one of the top two on the new scorecards. I’ve led big schools and small schools over many years and the single biggest factor in a school is the quality of leadership. Look for schools with strong student leadership opportunities, as that’s a strong sign student voices are valued. Ask for a tour when the school is running on a normal day, look at the relationships between students and staff. Most secondary schools are happy to provide a toilet pass if it’s needed. The reason all students can’t just leave the classroom when they feel like it to go to toilet or otherwise is safeguarding. You just can’t have loads of kids wandering round when the overwhelming majority of adults are teaching - it’s just not safe or practical. You could also request a transition meeting with the secondary to discuss the support your daughter was receiving previously / needs for the transition. I wish her all the best. The fact that you have thought so deeply about it and are so keen to consider what kind of environment will meet her needs will support her hugely.

If you’re near mossbournr then you’re likely in the catchment for Clapton girls, which is not strict at all. (If you think it is, then you do need to adjust your expectations of what secondary is compared to primary). It’s a lovely nurturing school with a caring ethos and excellent send support, which would be a great choice I think.

@BreakingBroken look at the overall size of the school.
in my view smaller is better (say 100 students per school year).
smaller school should allow a more personal experience with teachers knowing a bit more about each child.
although small schools; if too small are at risk of having to merge, and may have limited academic subjects and after school clubs.

Hugely subjective. Some kids feel overwhelmed in large schools.

Others prefer them, because it's easier to find your crowd among a larger group.

Wow @Rocknrollstar I want that job!

That's not been my experience at all, especially in private. Mostly the kids want to go so they can vape, or have a little break because they find the work hard, or drink too much water, or don't want to queue up at break/lunch...

@josephinejosephine's advice is good.

Cast your net wide, as well. Consider neighbouring boroughs. There may well be possibilities you haven't heard of.

My SEN DD attends an out of Borough school. It was the best choice.

Actually the private school I taught in was the worst for toilet issues.

Have no real advice except that your DD may be tougher than you think!

My DD is the most well-behaved child and also very anxious about being told off and now goes to a moderately strict school where they do hand out the detentions pretty liberally, esp at the start. When she got one for forgetting a notebook, I was terrified for her! We had talked about how we didn’t care at all but still …

Anyway, she came out smiling and had just read her book so it was hardly punishment - so many of her friends were in the same situation that it was a badge of honour.

I now think it’s good - classes are calm and lovely and she’s learned lessons about staying organized but also that it’s not the end of the world to be told off sometimes. That’s just something everyone has to learn to cope in life.

Thanks @QueenofFoxI’ll check out Clapton G, I’m not mad keen on single sex. Also @jwberlinactually it’s great to hear your reflections. I’m aware that I’m a very protective mother and probably I do need to accept that life has some bumps.

Surely talking in the corridors is normal? All lessons end at the same time so it's not disruptive. How are kids meant to make friends if they're not allowed to speak to each other?