Opposing views on A-Level choices

[lyraa]

My DS is making his A-Level choices and has provisionally picked Business, Geography and Psychology.

He doesn't have a strong interest in any of his GCSE subjects and doesn't work hard. He also has mild ADHD and has difficulty focusing and applying himself.

His school have given him target grades of 8/9 across the board, but he says they're unachievable and he'd be happy with 7/8s. He does want to go to uni and likes the idea of a degree apprenticeship, but doesn't have much idea about what he'd like to study. In the nicest possible way, he's quite immature.

My DH thinks his chosen subjects are too soft and won't be respected by unis or potential, future employers. He thinks the "pick what you're good at and will enjoy" advice from schools is intended to boost the schools results, rather than being in the interest of the student's long term outcomes.

I've bought into the school advice, and think pushing DS down a more difficult path that he's not interested in will result in an unhappy 6th form experience (for us all!) and poor grades. I'm not convinced that they will limit his future opportunities, but I'm not sure on this

DH and I need to align our views before we speak to DS. Any thoughts or advice from anyone who's been in a similar situation??

@clary Fair point on the STEM topic, I guess I was taking as a positive that he wasn't completely closing down the STEM avenue, in case his preferences change in the future.

His GCSEs are Maths (doesn't enjoy), Biology (finds this hard), English Lang & Lit (prefers Lang but not offered as A-Level), History (likes but wasn't keen on the topics for A-Level), RE (compulsory and doesn't enjoy), Geography and French (regrets taking!).

@LooseCanyon "What does your DH actually want him to study?" - Maths, a science, History - or a traditionally respected 'academic' subject.

How about History, Geography and Psychology?

Honestly, very soon Business is going to be a complete waste of time.

Yes, perhaps we need to suggest he re-thinks on History, as it's something he has enjoyed so far... Then it would only be one subject he hasn't studied at GCSE (whether that's Business of Psychology) and two more core subjects.

Personally I think Business sound incredibly dull, but that just me 😂(and I haven't told him that!).

History is awful at A level if it’s a topic you don’t enjoy.

I only managed to get through mine because I was extremely lucky with the questions - related to my other A levels.

Does it really matter if business becomes outdated? I don’t think I’ve used any knowledge from my A levels in the last 25 years of work.

Does he not do chem or physics? Tho if not keen on science they are not going to appeal.

Yes history might be more useful than business. If he is not keen on maths it’s best to avoid the A level.

Geog btw science or not will keep open geography at uni and also subjects such as surveying or maybe env science or IR.

I don't think history is going to be any more useful unless he wants to do a history degree.
Most bases are covered by psychology, geography and business - essays, stats, data analysis etc

A traditionally respected academic subject won't be respected if you son gets a crap grade. He needs to do something he wants to do snd is interested in. The higher his interest the more engaged he will be. Alevels are hard. Don't make them harder by pushing him into subjects that will bore him senseless.

DS1 did Business, Geography and Maths. He too was a good all rounder who didn’t early know what he wanted to do. Maths took up lot of his time and nearly killed him (although he did come out with a B), and got A’s in the other two subjects - so was glad he hadn’t picked other sciences or maybe more ‘testing’ subjects. He went on to study Geography at a RG uni (still not wanting to know what he wanted to do, just chose a good solid subject) and is now in the second year of a grad scheme.
Its a combination of choosing what you are good at, what you enjoy and what you will get the best results in because to some extent (exceptions of course) it’s often the grade rather than the subject that matters. All part of playing the game.

This is largely where I'm at, just worried that he doesn't really know what he wants or enjoys so will end up making a bad decision.

Perhaps that should be the focus, getting him to explore in more detail what the subjects he's thinking of will entail. As well as others he's previously been thinking about like History.

As long as he's happy, healthy, getting an education, and staying out of trouble, you are winning.

I agree with those saying no use doing history if you hate it. As I said, my main concern would be two totally new subjects. If he did business GCSE and enjoyed it, different story.

Yes get him to look at some A level papers and mark schemes and see if he can see himself answering those questions and being engaged.

There isn’t any bad decisions really. It’s easily rectified later via an Access course or foundation year if necessary. Grades are important though. I tell my students to
oicj subjects they’re likely to get high grades in. Plus research what those options can lead to. Prospects.ac.uk is a good resource.

My yr 13 daughter is doing two of those subjects (geography and Psychology) and enjoys both. She is planning on doing Psychology at hopefully a Russell group uni. Most Psych degrees require one science which includes Psychology (some unis include Geography in their list of sciences too). She hasn't found the Maths/stats side of Psychology too difficult (she got a 7 in GCSE Maths but worked hard for it). There has been some overlap between the A levels in terms of research methods which helped her when she was doing her Geography fieldwork). I work in Assessment and both are good, solid A levels - very relevant in life today

Your DH is wrong - it’s 2 years studying a small number of subjects- you have to like them and want to do it. Ultimately its your sons choice anyway.

I’ve seen plenty of young people who drop out when parents have chosen their subjects. Consider what leads to success overall.

I did a geography degree - though I never used it and later went back to Uni to train as a Nurse.

It's not an A level, it's a bit like an A/S level I think. The exams are taken in May/June of yr12. At DD's school the vast majority do EPQ, but core maths can be taken instead of EPQ if they want to continue with maths but don't want to do A level maths.

I'd be worried that with those A-levels he will end up doing a degree in business studies like a bazillion other kids and then end up working in a call centre. I'd avoid a degree in business studies if at all possible tbh. I know too many people that have ended up in call centres after a business studies degree.

I also agree with others that he's probably only interested in business and psychology because he hasn't done them before and they're an alternative to doing things he already knows he hates.

I think it's very difficult when you don't have a direction you want to go in but I really think he needs to start giving it some serious thought. This goes triple if he wants a degree apprenticeship because he will need to be doing relevant moocs and online courses, relevant EPQ, relevant volunteering, extra curriculars at school or outside - relevant or demonstrating soft skills, part time work etc. He will need an impressive CV and a variety of experiences to talk about at interview so if he wants to go down that route he really needs to give it some thought and start planning now.

He might be interested in something like the police perhaps? I think they have degree apprenticeships but know nothing about them. Or if geography is his favourite subject maybe going down an environmental route. Psychology is a slog to get anywhere with I think, years and years of study and difficult to get anywhere.

I'd get him looking at and thinking about what he might want to after A-levels before he makes any definite decisions.

Ds is doing this alongside Economics A Level
He got a 6 in Maths at GCSE so doesn't need it but wanted to

DD likes maths and considered taking it at A level for a while - she had a high enough grade to do it. She also looked at economics A level but you can't take it alongside business at her school. Core maths seems to fill the 'maths gap' for her!

I think those are perfectly fine A-levels for him to put down for his current school. I would be wary about the math and science content of both geography and psych if he genuinely wants to avoid that, but he's also not wedded to the initial choices he submits.

I would actually push this conversation in a different direction and (very insistently) ask him to explore and choose at least one other 16+ option to apply to in addition to his current school. If he resists, repeatedly point out that applying can only give him an additional option if he ends up needing or wanting it and he's absolutely not agreeing to leave his school by applying elsewhere. Having a backup plan is always a smart idea, and I think that actually looking at what else is out there could lead to him finding something that appeals and plays to his strengths more than what is available at his current school. I'd specifically encourage him to look at colleges that offer more options than just taking all A-levels because it really sounds like he might benefit from mixing in a BTEC or other option with more of a practical component. I know he's dead set on his current school right now, but as next fall draws closer he may find that some of his friends are at least considering leaving as well and regret not looking, especially as the reality of mocks and then actual exams hits.

It looks like he's just picked 3 random A levels that don't go together with no thought towards his university course, if i'm being honest.

Would he consider economics, its a growing field, with lots of different jobs available, yes the trad investment banking grad roles or analyst but loads more as well. The companies do loads of insight days, internships (yes competitive but smaller companies have started as well, and there's loads to access down the line). It also gives him an opening into STEM and more unis are allowing economics degree applications without having done Maths A-level. It obviously has maths but down the line can go into interdisciplinary roles he might like.

With history its really hard because you can love history (the subject) but not what you are doing. And it's completely down to the path your school takes as to whether you even think you like the subject, unfortunately both due to training, resources etc these topics tend to be pretty run of the mill and the under emphasis on history and geography compared to the past has impacted this.

Get him to properly look into the topics, the specifications, the assesment (what do the papers look like - he can see this online, they tend to be structured the same every year). Also he likely can (depends on his school) do what he wants for his history nea.
Though check as schools are allowed to do 1. Let everyone do what they want 2. Give a list of topics based on the teachers specialisms, particular areas of interest, even if it's not something they are teaching to any year, ans let students pick from that or 3. Pick for students, and have the overall topics be the same for everyone (questions and question focus would be different though).

As a whole he needs to like the subjects, there's no point doing something he think he'll hate unless he 100% needs it. I will say though somtimes the challenge of A-level, the opportunity for more depth, means students can love subjects they didn't always use to at GCSE. I know many people who took subjects they weren't too fond of or didn't at all like at GCSE and it became their favourite at A-level. But wouldn't recommend as a guide of how to choose subjects. He can change across y11 so it's not the be all and end all now.

If he does choose Psychology and enjoys it enough to want to study it at university, he will need maths or biology A level as well to be considered for a lot of Psychology courses.

This is not true for most BSc Psychology courses (Russell group included). Most ask for one Science which can include A level Psychology.