Private (independent) vs state

[Abeera]

Hi,

I need some advice. I am considering secondary schools for my son. He is a currently in prep school. I am considering independent and state. I would appreciate advice from those in a similar situation or experience with both.

Independent schools would be (though manageable) a bit of a stretch, we also have a good state schools close by. My only concern is that the GCSE results from the independent schools (most of the ones I have come across) outweigh the states by far. Now my experience from the prep has been that a lot of the pupils get tuitions from a very early age, this then reflects the leaver destination. So to some extent, the leaver destination is not a 100% reflection of the school or the teaching at the school. Of course the children are very well nurtured at the prep school and my son is very happy. Is this a similar scenario in a independent secondary school? should I be saving money and rather investing into outside academic support for a good academic performance (tuitions etc)? rather than paying the high school fees, or are the independent schools enough in themselves without the parents having to pull on extra resources? I understand that this may differ between child's own abilities but a generic response would be very helpful.

The other concern I have is regarding the transition of my son from private to state. He is slightly sensitive so I am concerned if he will fit in and be happy at a state as we are looking at the next 5-7 years.

I'd be grateful for any advise from anyone who has experienced a similar scenario.

Thank you for all your help.

most people on here are going to tell you independent school isn't worth it if you have decent state schools and that a bright child will thrive wherever with the right support.

However, I went to boarding school and loved every single second of it, I did a year at the local comp and it was far from the right environment for me. My DD has just started at our local independent school and I am so glad we've made that decision, the opportunities available to her are just out of this world compared to the state high schools in the area. Interestingly, it is not a school known for its academic success but already, DD is way ahead of her contemporaries at the local high school (her primary friends went there and she still speaks to them). She may end up with the same grades as she would have got from the high school, but she will have so much kore on top of that because that's what the school expects. Doing after school clubs is brilliant but I think it's much easier for kids to give up/ want to do what their friends do. From my perspective, if you can afford the independent school I would do that.

We did the opposite ie state primary to independent secondary.
It all comes down to what the state secondary schools are like around you.

The "any bright child will do well anywhere" trope is bollocks if teachers are spending 80% of a lesson doing behaviour management.

Some state schools are shit and some independent schools are shit. Some state schools are good and some independent schools are good. You need to chose the best fit for your child irrespective of sector.

I agree with both PPs:

A bright child will do well anywhere IS bollocks.

The school experience DOES matter as much as the grades - just like for an adult the work environment matters as much as the salary.

There are some great and terrible schools in both sectors.

It depends entirely on the schools that you are comparing.

Are the state schools selective, faith or truly comprehensive? Are the private schools academically selective?

Looking at raw exam data to compare schools is, as you have identified, fraught with difficulties because of the difference in the cohort. You need to dig deeper into the data, in particular into ‘results by pupil characteristics’ on the DfE ‘compare schools’ website.

‘By prior attainment’ is a useful starting point - you can see the numbers of pupils whose end of primary attainment is low / middle / high and then both the attainment 8 (a measure of absolute exam results) and progress 8 (a measure of value added by the school - 0 is ‘did exactly as expected from prior attainment’, 1 is ‘1 grade higher in each GCSE than expected’, -1 is obviously ‘1 grade lower in each GCSE than expected’.

You can also look at boys vs girls; disadvantaged vs non-disadvantaged pupils etc.

Unfortunately, the same level of detail is not available for private schools, but by comparing eg mid / high attainers, non-disadvantaged in a state school with the overall results of the private school does add some information about the context.

If your child excels at eg sport, music etc, then that adds another layer of information - if so, and if community / county extracurricular provision for that activity is of much lower quality (may be the case for eg hockey; less likely for eg football) then that may mean you tend towards private as an ‘all in one package’.

I think it is important to look at all the differences, sport (ours does far more sport than local state and different eg rugby rather than football), competitive sport matches - some are on Saturdays, level of extra curricular expected our year 11s all do Duke of Edinburgh silver award which is compulsory, disparity between boarders and day pupils, there is an element of keeping up with the Jones’ it would be remarked upon if kids turned up in primary head to toe, girls skincare and make up routines are £££££’s, higher basic levels of behaviour, they are allowed to use toilets during lessons if needed.

The general environment is very different. The level of disrespect at our local state which gets decent gcse results is unbelievable.

Main negative is a lack of awareness of diversity of income and understanding of problems that a lot of people have. In general kids come from two parent families with at least one healthy income.

I think you need to ask yourself another question. Is the only reason you are sending your child to an independent school the GCSE results? If yes, then I think a state plus tutoring is a cheaper option. The reality is that the results do not come on their own by a miracle to those children in independent schools. It's the hard work that pays off. many of the children that attend private schools do have extra tutoring to make the 7s, 8s or 9s. But I see tuition as work too. If someone can put in the required work in the state sector should have a very similar result. Of course if you go to a class with fewer and more determined children this will come with fewer destructions but nevertheless it's the hard work that will bring the GCSE results.
What many independent school will offer though is that usually (not always) you have more like-minded peers in terms of aspiration, maybe less aggressive behaviour, access to talks, fewer teachers replacement teachers, more structure etc.

Lastly, I think that many (again not all) children might be happier in a private school. And if you have an allready happy child at private school might not want the disruption of the big state secondaries. Again, this is not sure and there are thousands of children that are happy at their state schools. I think the key is to have like-minded peers!

If these are some things that you are willing and able to pay for then I think you should stay in private. If you feel you cannot justify all the necessary sacrifices for these things, then embrace yourself and your child and try to stay focus in an environment that might not be so determined and move to state.

I have experience from both worlds (private and state) and now facing the same questions again with my eldest going on to sixth form and middle going on to secondary and still cannot decide what I am supposed to do! For us most likely the financing will be the main deciding factor!

@Abeera Independent schools would be (though manageable) a bit of a stretch

From a purely financial perspective, I'd invite you to consider the following:

• how stable are your jobs and income? You might be able to afford the fees now, but what if your situation changes? I am terrified by job instability and ageism (should I get fired and have to look for another job). Other people are not.
• how much would fees cost? In London, it can easily be £30k per child per year (elsewhere it may be less). So 7 years of secondary can cost £210k, in today's money. For anyone who isn't a multi-millionaire, these amounts matter, they make a difference. Our decision was that we'd prefer to spend this kind of money in our pensions and help our child financially after they turn 18. Other families prefer to do the opposite. Hugely subjective.
• The reason for this preference is that the cost of living and of housing have skyrocketed, and only graduates in a handful of super competitive and super stressful careers (banking, business law, some tech) can afford to buy a place. Again, that's my view, of course not everyone agrees, opinions on this vary hugely.

From an academic perspective:

the GCSE results from the independent schools (most of the ones I have come across) outweigh the states by far

That by itself doesn't mean much. The intake is different. It's not like private and state schools achieve different results with the same children. Independent schools tend to select based on academic ability, state schools tend not to, so of course results will be different.

A better question is: what results is YOUR child likely to achieve in which school?

A state comp may have a lower percentage of kids achieving 7+ at GCSE, simply because they have a larger % of kids doing the foundation papers. But, if the same state comp divides kids into sets, and pushes and challenging the top set, offering more advanced subjects 9eg not every school offers further maths), then that's not a problem for you.

Of course not every state comp pushes its most academic kits. That's what you'd need to look into.

Many state comps are like multiple schools in one. There are many cases where the top sets of a diverse comp may achieve comparable results to those of an independent school

One thing i noticed when I was there in an independent school GCSE results aren't just teaching it also the structure around it. In independent schools because of fixed routines the teachers pick up really quickly if someone is falling behind so weaker students get support quite early on. Honestly tuition still happens but much less compared to prep school. i think the big because a lot of the monitoring is already built into the school day so the difference is environment. some children really like that predictability and some don't.