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The 11+ was a eugenics test to weed out genetically "inferior" children, created by a classicist who falsified his research

408 replies

ParentOfOne · 09/10/2025 10:03

I had already made a post a few months ago about why I think the 11+ and similar tests are flawed.

Since many families have just gone or are going through the 11+ drama now, I just wanted post a short but timely reminder that the 11+ was born as a eugenics test at the beginning of last century, when eugenics was all the rage. That meant looking for pseudo-scientific ways to improve the genetic "quality" of human population, by identifying "inferior" races and individuals, and "improving" the other ones.

The father of the 11+ was Cyril Burt, a posh t*at gentleman who studied classics at Oxford and then took an interest in psychology, without any training in medicine, psychology, mathematics, statistics.

He became convinced that intelligence was innate and not affected by the environment, and therefore wanted to find ways to identify the innately gifted and intelligent children, with the not so subtle implication that everyone else could go f* themselves was better suited for other, less academic pursuits.

Before dying, he burnt all his records and notes, and the current academic consensus is that he was guilty of scientific misconduct (falsifying data).

A campaign group against the 11+ and selective schools summarises his story here

If that seems too partisan, you might want to read what the British Psychological Society has to say (spoiler: mostly the same things).

To recap:

  • the 11+ was created by a posh t* who had studied Classics and lacked any training in psychology, statistics, mathematics, the sciences in general
  • the ideology behind it was the (now debunked) idea that intelligence is innate and unaffected by the environment
  • the gentleman in question had fabricated a large part of his research
  • there is no scientific study on the reliability of these tests, on how better or not the kids who ace these tests do vs the kids who do not, on why answering those questions in 30 seconds makes you more intelligent than answering them in 45, etc
  • the very concept of IQ is controversial
  • when similar tests are used by psychologists, they cannot be administered too frequently, otherwise the results are biased. This alone proves that the notion that there can be no tutoring is utter bs, as proven by the huge industry that exists around tutoring for the 11+
  • it is well known that selective and partially selective state schools are hugely SOCIALLY selective; the % of kids on free school meals at those schools is always much lower than elsewhere (e.g. only 5.8% at Henrietta Barnett in London). Cyryl Burt would have said that richer kids are inherently more intelligent; I call bs and say those schools select the kids whose families can either tutor them themselves or pay for tutoring

So, if you are non-white and/or non-British and/or working class, remember that these tests were conceived with the explicit aim of weeding out undesirable and obviously genetically inferior people like you (if any artificial stupidity censor reads this, that was sarcasm ).

Cyril Burt - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Burt

OP posts:
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ParentOfOne · 16/10/2025 21:30

@Araminta1003 Well if you would like to STALK me across different threads, I already did all of that.

Remembering what someone said to me a few days ago is not stalking. It's not like I looked you up to dig something you had written 20 years ago.

@RingoJuice Most will have to learn the basics before creative thinking can happen. And that requires rote learning.

Up to a point

This was an issue in the US with phonics vs whole word. Basically a whole generation of kids were given suboptimal reading skills because teachers in high positions (who really should have known better) didn’t like rote learning, didn’t respect its necessity, believed it killed love of learning

This example is irrelevant, because the country is full of schools which teach via rote learning what needs to be learnt that way (like irregular French verbs) but don't use that approach for everything.

An example of the kind of rote learning I am criticising was described here

Page 8 | Michaela school - experiences? | Mumsnet

This is purely out of curiosity as I live nowhere near it. I saw an interview with the HT and whilst I didn't agree with everything she said the resul...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4661381-michaela-school-experiences?reply=121030355&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

OP posts:
FancyBiscuitsLevel · 17/10/2025 07:43

OP I believe the Blair government looked at bringing the faith schools back under LEA control back in the late 90s. It was considered too tricky/expensive because the land/buildings often belong to the churches and would have to be bought off them. Many of them have restrictions on how the land is owned, there’s one in our town that if the church couldn’t just sell to the council, if they stop providing a church based education on the site it would revert to the descendants of the woman who made the original gift.

It is a pity as the Blair gov time was probably the only time we had the money and public spirit to do it.

Araminta1003 · 17/10/2025 09:36

“OP I believe the Blair government looked at bringing the faith schools back under LEA control back in the late 90s.”

Is that before or after he sent his own DS to the Oratory?

ParentOfOne · 17/10/2025 09:40

@FancyBiscuitsLevel There are always historical and financial reasons behind every atrocity and injustice. If we had let that stop us, we would have never progressed. Maybe we shouldn't have abolished slavery, because what about the property rights of those poor slave owners, it wouldn't have been fair to expropriate their assets, right?

The fact remains that we have a state-funded crucial service like education that discriminates based on faith.
That there are historical and financial reasons behind it doesn't make it right.

OP posts:
Araminta1003 · 17/10/2025 09:45

@ParentOfOne - it is not just the IB funding, it is the funding for 4 A levels not to include humanities, Music, languages anymore. So just Maths and Science extra funding (there is a set list).

There is no point Phillipson going on about how she is going to broaden the curriculum because we do not believe it! If you withdraw funding for Music and languages and top students doing 4 A levels there, you are not going to have the teachers further down the line to broaden the curriculum.
Countless IB English teachers and language teachers are likely going to be made redundant off the back of their IB funding withdrawal. The fact IB mandates English and a language is exactly the kind of broad curriculum that I would have thought you like, at least in theory. I have teacher friends who teach eg French who are facing redundancy because currently a lot of students in Ebacc schools are choosing Spanish (over French or even German, if still offered). Some schools get past this by allocating children into specific language classes with no choice as to which one they get, but that is not ideal. If there is no extra funding forthcoming for French, German at A level, how do the Government expect schools to fund classes of 2 students, even if these students are the really smart ones and otherwise doing 4 A levels including that? The reality is that a lot of teachers stay in the job precisely because they also have A level classes!

Always follow the money @ParentOfOne and ignore the political waffle. None of the big chat they do means anything, if they do not fund it.

If they offered all academies the huge amount of SEND funding they are sending via LAs to specialist independent schools instead (massive private equity bonanza right there) including on transport, and put upfront real investment into SEND hubs in academies, rest assured most Academies would be able to provide the right education for SEND DC.

Araminta1003 · 17/10/2025 13:01

“Francis’s interim review did signal some potentially big changes, though. The EBacc accountability measure is under review, the number of GCSE exams could be cut and there is also lots of work going into lightening the primary curriculum load.
Schools Week also revealed last month that the government plans to introduce a year 8 reading test.
Another change could be a strengthening of financial education.”

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/i-dream-the-curriculum-every-night-leading-educations-toughest-brief/

And
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/grammars-top-league-tables-as-attainment-replaces-progress-8/

And
https://schoolsweek.co.uk/white-paper-plan-for-schools-to-be-part-of-a-group/

Grammars top league tables as attainment replaces progress 8

Progress 8 cannot be calculated this year and next due to Covid SATs cancellations

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/grammars-top-league-tables-as-attainment-replaces-progress-8/

BlueMoonIceCream · 18/10/2025 21:00

FluffMagnet · 09/10/2025 10:15

Frankly I think we need more division of secondary education, akin to the Dutch and German systems. Some children are academic, others more practical/engineer minded. Why we force all children to do the same things, I will never know. Encourage children to pursue their natural talents, rather than chase unattainable ideals, and choose the child's schooling on that basis.

The grammar system is great for kids who are naturally academically minded. It is a shame we as a country to little to cater for children gifted in other areas.

Engineering is an academic degree. Honestly many kids are studying engineering 😂

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