Sydenham School & Prendergast Hilly Fields, SE London

[banhmi]

Hi, would be very grateful to hear from parents with recent experiences of these two schools. We are currently in the catchment for PHF but are considering moving towards Forest Hill / Sydenham. Have visited the schools - really liked both but marginally preferred Sydenham because it is all on one site - but can see why each is popular and well-regarded.

However I'd love to know why, with fairly similar catchments (from what I can tell), there does seem to be quite a significant difference in academic results - PHF seems a lot stronger than Sydenham here - at least on 2024 results, will check again soon for 2025. I have a fairly bright and academic daughter and don't want to disadvantage her by moving away from the school that might be a better fit. (Also not saying this is the be all and end all, by any means - just something I'd like to better understand).

Many thanks!

I can't offer any experience of Sydenham because my DDs went to Prendergast. One stayed on for sixth form, the other left at the end of Y11 to do sixth form elsewhere.

The intake at Prendergast is half the size of that at Sydenham. They are schools with a similar history but Sydenham takes almost double the number of girls as Prendergast does. When we looked at schools for DD1, we visited and liked both schools and would have been happy to have been allocated either. For us, the key advantage Prendergast had was that we live within walking distance so as well as being convenient and meaning our DDs' friends are mostly local, DD1 wouldn't have got into Sydenham on distance anyway.

My DDs have done well at Prendergast and it was a good school for both of them. The teachers (including science) are subject specialists who know their stuff and build positive relationships with their students. All the students are expected to take a language for GCSE and most will do combined science (triple is offered to a single class of students). GCSE further maths is an after school club available to those in the highest maths set. I don't know if Sydenham does any of those things differently.

The split site at Prendergast was something both of mine considered to be a positive. It means the timetable is organised so most lessons are doubles e.g. double English - break - double history - lunch - double biology. There are fewer transitions and also fewer books to lug up and down the hill. The DD who moved for sixth form has found it strange to feel locked in to one site for the whole day and also to have six shorter lessons.

Thanks so much@PrendergastParent Really good to know it's been such a good choice for your DDs and the split site was a positive. I'm still a bit baffled by the difference in results though. I looked up this year's and at Prendergast over half the GCSE grades were 7, 8 or 9s while at Sydenham that figure was just under a third. Not sure their relative sizes would explain it, unless the bigger catchment of Sydenham means a more diverse intake with a wider range of starting points? Keen to establish that teaching is as strong at Sydenham as it seems to be at Prendergast.

My daughter is in her 30s now but she went to Prendergast. A great deal will have changed since then but I can confirm that the split site is really not an issue. We regularly walk through the park at changeover time and I feel it's good for the girls (and the Sixth Form boys) to get the chance to stretch their legs walking up and down the hill between the two sites (which are extremely close together, far closer than most split site schools). They also get plenty of exercise going up the stairs in the main building which from memory are quite steep!

I would hazard a guess that the difference in results has a great deal to do with catchment and smaller year groups. Houses and flats close enough to Prendergast to guarantee a place there are now eyewateringly expensive. There's some social housing, but I would think greatly outnumbered by owner occupied and privately rented dwellings. Most girls will be coming from families with the income and educational background to give a lot of support to their children.

Thanks @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g, that is definitely true and probably explains much of the difference. Would love the views of any Sydenham parents, especially re the quality of teaching and how bright girls are stretched and encouraged.

Would also appreciate any insights on sports provision at both schools, as the facilities don't seem as good as Prendergast Ladywell which is currently our nearest mixed option. I never seem to see the Prendergast students using Hilly Fields, for example, but forgot to ask whether they go elsewhere for football etc at the open day.

I have boys but I know many girls who have gone to Sydenham and done extremely well. Hopefully someone with first hand experience will post soon.

Replying as we were in a similar dilemma as you last year. My daughter will be starting secondary next September and we decided not to move in the end, but that was unrelated to schools as we loved both and felt like a well-supported kid would do well in both. We also know children at both who are very happy so felt reassured by that. I don't think the student populations seem drastically different - the first is Prendergast the second Sydenham from gov compare website.

Apologies for multiple messages- couldn't work out how to post two images.

Thanks @SELDN00. Really reassured that people feel their kids would have been happy and done well at either - that was also my feeling but wanted to do my due diligence! Very grateful for any further insights on both schools.

OP if you look on the website another poster shared above, you can get more detailed demographic info which I suggest at least partly explains any disparity (reflecting the different catchments etc too).

Under “results by pupil characteristics” for eg, you can filter by disadvantaged pupils, looking also at SEND etc, and by prior attainment.

A third of Sydenham’s most recent (published) gcse pupils were disadvantaged, vs a quarter of Prendergast’s.

And almost a third of Prendergast pupils were high attainers vs a quarter of Sydenham (31% v 26%).

15% at Sydenham were low prior attainers vs 10%.

Typically comps would be more like 20-25% high attainers, 15-25 lower attainers.

These things make a difference… I really liked Prendergast (but we live too far) but intake accounts for a lot of any disparity in outcome.

The Prendergast students do use Hilly Fields for PE, mainly in the summer but otherwise use the gym hall and main halls I believe. They used to be driven in a minibus and taken to the school's field which is behind Conisbrough College but that stopped a few years ago (not because of covid but maintenance I think). There's a range of sports done during PE including trampolining, badminton, football, netball and various others (I think they are listed on the website within the curriculum section). I would expect the range of sports clubs at Sydenham to be larger than at Prendergast because of the scale of the school.

@PrendergastParent
All the students are expected to take a language for GCSE and most will do combined science (triple is offered to a single class of students). GCSE further maths is an after school club available to those in the highest maths set. I don't know if Sydenham does any of those things differently.

shockingly every secondary school around me expected a GCSE language, double award was for the ‘not so smart’ students and additonal maths was for all the top 3 classes as a standard. How things have fallen away since then.

@wtftodo ah yes, should’ve dug deeper. Makes sense.

@banhmi I see you can also look at what progress 8 is for each of those prior attainment categories, which might help when thinking about your individual child. Sounds like they’d do grand at either though.

I'm not sure how long ago, 'double award was for the ‘not so smart’ students' was but it's not unusual for combined science to be the only course offered by schools; the amount of content crammed into the course is significant and since about 2016, they have been linear assessments rather than the modular ones of old. At Prendergast, those who do triple science do so in the same timetable slot as those who do combined i.e. there is no additional time to cover the additional content, they have to work faster. In some schools, triple science takes the place of one of the GCSE options.

As for 'additonal maths was for all the top 3 classes as a standard.', Prendergast has an intake of 120, split into five classes. I wouldn't expect the top three sets of a small comprehensive school to all do further maths.

Most girls at Prendergast do ten GCSEs. If they do triple science and/or further maths, they will be doing eleven or even twelve. Ten is more than enough!

You're choosing between two great schools and your daughter is bright and well supported by the sound of it. A lot depends on your DD's stability and happiness so if she is happy in her primary and lots of her friends are going to HF I would not rock the boat and send her there.

Having said that if sport is really important to your DD I would not choose Prendergast as they do not prioritise it at all. They do what they have to and yes, use HF for sports sometimes. I don't have personal experience of Sydenham but their sports facilities are visibly better and being bigger I'm sure they're more interested in sports.

Just to add - my daughter has just started at Sydenham and she (and we!) couldn't be happier. Really value the community feel so far, excellent facilities, the communication is great (fortnightly newsletters etc) and the fact that it's still a very proud Lewisham comprehensive rather than an academy was a big plus for us - it was our first choice. She was the only girl from her primary to go and has made some lovely friends so far. The rest of her close friends that are girls went to Prendergast Hilly Fields, and it sounds like they're enjoying it so far. You've got two excellent choices there.

I had two at Syd - number one has just gone off to uni after staying for sixth form. She and her friends did very well and mostly had a good time. Some excellent teachers - not all, and high aspirations.

Number 2, now in Year 12, went off to a specialist music school on a government place at year 10 because the school did have a big blip on music and it still isn't a priority for them. Fair enough, you can't do everything.

With hindsight because DD2 was into music we should have gone for Prendergast but didn't think it would change so drastically as Syd was strong for music when she joined.

Now at Syd there is no Music A-Level offered for her year and not enough for an on-timetable GCSE. Not a problem for most kids and I suspect the school will pick that up now they're past the Covid blip - worth checking if it is important to you though.

DD2's old year group at Syd did fantastically at GCSE - several friends of hers got straight nines, and despite the fact that she's now at a relatively posh boarding school where lots of people pay a lot to go, DD will still say that some subjects were taught far better at Syd - notably maths.

You are lucky with either, in my opinion. Syd gives you a wider friendship group and bigger choice of subjects, which was why both my DDs were keen to go there.

Sydenham has a new head of music and my understanding is it's picking back up. Plus they have the legendary Battle of the Bands every year. It is a strong sports offer and the dance especially is very good, but also e.g. rugby and basketball. Lots doing DoE and they are national debate mate champions.

Have a look at the A level results as well OP, they were only just behind PHF last year. One of the things we really like about the school is that it is very proudly comprehensive and they celebrate girls who achieve on vocational routes just as much as academic kids- the emphasis being on achieving your own best, whatever that is.

Great behaviour policy as well, focused on very intensively rewarding positives rather than yelling at them all day. Which is all to say, if it ends up being your closest school your DD will do well there.

I am so pleased to hear that @Fishinthesink - I think we were just unlucky that the time when they did have a music blip coincided with DD2, for whom it is an absolute passion.

Would second that the debate is truly, truly excellent. The dance too.

Yes I mean that offer isn't going to compete with a specialist school obviously- likewise a lot of south London schools will lose 5-10 pupils in year 10 to BRIT, if you're that into performing arts then a mainstream won't cut it.

But it looks a decent offer to me- a range of choirs from fun pop choir to auditioned, lots of different ensembles. I think it would meet most kids' needs. One of the dance clubs is an auditioned company but they have some fun ones too and they do a big musical every year with 2 casts so everyone gets a go.

Does PHF have a shared 6th form? Sydenham shares its 6th with Forest Hill Boys which means they do move across 2 sites for 6th form.

Dance and debate at Sydenham is something Prendergast can't compete on. It also doesn't offer German at GCSE or things like citizenship and childcare. It does offer statistics GCSE though which may appeal to some! Cheer at Prendergast is popular and has won at a national level in the recent past but the school isn't the best at communicating its sports achievements. It is supportive of girls who are in national etc squads, on stage in the West End etc. which isn't the case everywhere.

Prendergast does have a mixed sixth form, yes. SFH6 operates quite differently I think with some subjects offering different versions of the same subject on each of its sites. DD really liked SFH6 but chose to stay at Prendergast because she much preferred the A-level English syllabus.

Would add that the maths teaching at PHF is extremely good. The head of maths is incredible at getting girls to actually ENJOY maths and not worry about failure too much.

You're on to a winner either way OP.

SFH6 is indeed split site - and mixed. Doesn't always operate quite as one school (when the inset days for the two schools it covers are different it is a right pain) but you have many years before you need to think of that, and can switch then if you prefer. DD1 enjoyed her subjects at both sites.

I don't think PHF sixth form is shared with another school in the sense of sixth formers having to travel to other schools. My understanding is that as well as non-Prendergast students gaining places for sixth form (boys as well as girls) they also take students from Prendergast Ladywell Fields and Prendergast Vale, if they want to go there and meet the entry criteria.

I agree with this, the maths teaching is superb and it's been lovely to see one of my DDs in particular really enjoy maths, statistics and further maths having been fairly meh about it previously.

And incase OP's DC is into the arts... Friend's daughters speak very highly of the arts provision at PHF also. Weekly double art lessons, singing lessons, music and textiles/product design/food tech shows quite a commitment to creative subjects. Oddly drama is fortnightly. Arts seem strong at S too which is heartening at a time when creative subjects are being forced out of the curriculum, and great to hear music is now improving.