trading up for sixth form

[Offtheygo]

my DD is looking at changing school for sixth form. she probably needs a change and is looking at a school with stronger results than her current one, especially in maths and science which are the subjects she is looking at.

my question is : would it help or play against her to move to a more academic school. she is currently ranked in the top 30 of her 160ish cohort but will presumably drop her ranking at the new school, would it play against her on her UCAS application as the schools have to provide some context ? the teaching she has received in her current school has not been great in maths and sciences with high staff turnover, lots of self directed learning, despite her school being very selective, it's really strong in humanities (rather than sciences).

can anyone shed any light on to that aspect please? thank you

Do you mean that it could count against her that the teachers won’t know her as well and so won’t be able to give as good a reference? Or that if she goes to a better sixth form, universities will see she’s somewhere good and expect more of her?

If either of those, I don’t think they would make any difference. The first is irrelevant - every child at a standalone sixth form college has met all the teachers for the first time at start of a levels. I have never been told what my child’s “ranking” is compared to the others in their year, other than knowing they’re in set 1 for maths etc. and if a school was planning on doing this, they’d “rank” afresh during a levels presumably, based on their performance in mocks?

edited to add - I think I see what you’re asking - you think she’s sitting near the top of the current school’s cohort but would be more in the middle in a more selective sixth form? Schools will talk about the individual pupil and their ability, not how they compare to the rest of the cohort. She should focus on getting the best grades she can, more than what a school might say about her position relative to others in a written reference.

The second - well, universities prefer students with higher grades so going somewhere that will perhaps challenge her more and encourage a higher standard of work would be a good thing. There are sometimes contextual offers for some key markers - you can search uni pages for relevant subjects and entry criteria to see if there are contextual offers made - but I don’t think moving from a selective school to perhaps a better school would make any difference here.

@Offtheygo you're overthinking this. Every university recruits differently and most over-offer because they know many candidates won't meet their predicted grades. It is important that she goes somewhere with good teaching so that she is confident in her subjects. Also, a change of sixth form is good preparation for university.

But equally, don't assume the other school has better teaching just because it has better results. They may just have a more academic intake.

Is she in the private sector or state?

I agree that you’re overthinking it. She should go to school where she’s happy.

thank you
I have had two children who have been goobg all the way through in the prospective school, each taking two of the A levels STEM subjects, she is considering for sixth form. So I know the school pretty well and I definitely know for a fact that the quality of the teaching there is much stronger and more stable too, sorry should have explained that bit.
both independent schools and highly selective

university definitely look at context when reviewing an application, I have discussed aspects of the schoolreference

I’m sure they do look at context, but the overall context will be one highly selective private school vs another highly selective private school. To be fair I have no experience of private schools and how they talk of references, but I do feel that if you think moving to the other school will measurably increase her ability in stem subjects, and increase the chance of her achieving higher grades, which will be with her for life unlike a school reference, this is a better choice.

What subjects is she interested in, and what sort of uni course? Where might she be looking to apply to? What sort of grades are we looking at here? Most STEM courses differentiate on grades, extra entrance tests (STEP, ESAT etc) and that gives plenty of room for differentiation beyond a “this is one of our top 30 students” reference.

Yeh agree with @Talipesmum – surely the best thing for her is to be at the sixth form setting that will help her achieve the most.

Even if unis do assess applications based on where the student sits within the cohort (and I am not convinced that this is a significant factor – but then I had very little idea of where my DC sat within their cohort) the PGs and actual A level grades will be a lot more important. I am sure unis look at context, but I think that's more around the difficulties the student will have had gaining their results (so if for example they went to a school that was not supportive or there were other factors) but obvs that doesn't apply here.

What uni and what subject is a likely application (appreciate it is early days but it's good to have an idea so as to steer A level choices)?

Does a uni really say of candidate A "they sit at the top of their school cohort so we will make them an offer" and of candidate B "they are in the middle to bottom of the cohort so nope"? I cannot imagine the process is so granular – but if it is, then they will also be aware that the cohort for candidate B is much higher achieving so will add that context.

@Offtheygo you are overthinking. And I am too now haha. Send her where she will do best and will enjoy the experience.

@Offtheygo The top universities try to spread their offers out across different schools and school types so if there are many applicants from the same school for the same course then, yes, being one of the stronger applicants will help. But it's more subtle and granular than you think. My DS went to a super-selective grammar for sixth form and his maths teacher wrote in his reference that he achieved the top result for the stats paper in year 12. That worked well for him because he was applying for economics and stats courses - he would have needed to be in the top 10 maths all rounders to get an Oxbridge maths interview. Top 30 wouldn't have cut it. This is only a thing at the most selective universities though. And they contextualise based on where applicants did their GCSEs, not just their A levels.

I would prioritise better, more stable teaching over trying to game an uncertain system. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.