Impact of parental education and support on pupil performance

[mids2019]

I have a PhD in physics and in a fortunate position to help with my daughter with GCSE maths work in terms of algebra, trigonometry etc. as I have a mathematical background and still use maths

I have to say that assistance has brought on results in terms of test results etc. Of course my daughter is primarily responsible but I can't deny parental support and education really helps.

In some ways I can see it as a bit of an unfair advantage as other pupils in her class don't benefit from one to one tuition on the whole. I don't know if this should be viewed as unfair and you can't use having non university educated parents as a mitigation for any exam performance but it did make me think

Universities contextualise for living in deprived regions but should we also look at parental education when looking exam results to level the playing field?

But equally mine also left school with a couple of O levels between them (I was the first in my family to go to university). But both of my parents supported my education, both directly by reading with me and practising times tables etc, and more indirectly by taking me to museums and landmarks and other enrichment activities.

Parental education doesn’t necessarily translate into parental support - DH’s parents are both educated to postgrad level but in contrast to mine, neither of them ever bothered about his school work.

The question that you may be should be asking OP is around whether your daughter is struggling, because to be constantly asking your mum for help in gcse year is a little concerning

I helped my ds, I read to him every day from when he was 6 months, through to about 8 years. As a result he reads for pleasure.

He has his own room, peace and privacy. He has all the tech and all the books he needs. I do everything I can to create the right environment for him.

I wasn't encouraged by my parents, had no support, shared a room with three sisters, had no peace or quiet. My F chose to undermine & belittle, because he didn't believe in the education of women. Instead he resented it. I know how much of a negative impact being told daily that I'm is useless and will fail, can have.

I've tried to create the opposite environment for DS.

He has more advantages than I did, but fewer than some of his class mates. Ds'll be fine. I don't resent the others. The differential is much less than I faced..

OP, you are right:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/apr/26/university-school-grades-child-background

https://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/news/children-of-similar-cognitive-ability-have-very-different-chances-of-educational-success (from 2019)

This is a problem for society as a whole, since many bright children don't reach their potential. A better educated population benefits everyone.

I haven’t a clue about maths (humanities degree) my DH more so, but DC did all her own work and still git a grade 9 at GCSE.

Are you saying without expert help, DC are going to struggle doing homework and revision? That’s what teachers are for, they specialise in their subject, or should do.

They ask if a parent has a degree on the UCAS form. Some people say that’s just for “stats” but some Universities use it as one of their contextual criteria, so the “only for stats” is a load of bull. I’ve told my DC to say I don’t have a degree. Hands Up. Cos I ain’t helped her with any maths homework.

Of course parental engagement will matter. I still remember very clearly visiting a secondary school open day (which I will not be sending my child to!) In one of the year 7 maths classrooms there were some fairly easy maths problems written on the board. One dad made a big song and dance about how he failed maths, that was gibberish and why was his daughter going to be wasting her time when it hasn’t done him any harm. He was loud, stupid and obnoxious. I was pretty shocked and felt desperately sorry for his daughter who just said to the teacher that she quite liked maths at primary. I still sometimes wonder how she’s getting on as she clearly wasn’t going to be getting any help from the dad.

My DH has a maths PhD. He is shit at helping DC because he doesn't get why they don't get it. I do because I find it harder to get maths so I help them solve it WITH me. So I think parental time is actually more important than parental education.

ooooh yes this. One of the very best maths teachers I have known freely admitted that her lovely lovely A level student was better at maths than she was (he was amazing). She understood how to explain bc she saw how students didn;t get it.

Similarly I have known brilliant mathematicians who don’t get on so well teaching lower ability as they cannot see what the issue is. So to speak.

I don’t think they should. My ex-husband went to university a shit one but still.
He’s had absolutely zero impact on those children in terms of assistance or financial help to get them into School .

The fact you know what a university is and that he went to 'shit' one is relevant in itself though. Presumably he knows how to revise for an exam and how to prepare coursework. It all seems silly base level knowledge but I teach students who have parents who have no idea of this stuff. Students who are capable of the top level highly selective courses opting for low level courses because they just didn't realise that there were league tables and different types of courses. They just picked the first one they saw. They don't know how to go about starting an essay or how to look for sources to support their work. Often they haven't had access to IT at home either (no tablets or laptops) which is a huge disadvantage.

You’re rather missing the point. It doesn’t matter what he knows. He hasn’t passed any of that onto his kids.
They have received no benefit from it whatsoever but if they were asked to fill out a form that might disadvantage them because he’s been that would be to their detriment wouldn’t it?

There’s a question on the form… are you the first in family to go??

how would they even prove that either way.

Very unlikely

What do you mean by "level the playing field"? Are you saying we should not be allowed to teach our kids and the aim is for all of us to become stupid? that'll be "fair"? Or, that you have an obligation to teach all the kids in the school, which in practice, is impossible. Don't be silly.

Bear in mind, overly helping your kid might lead to your kid being dependant on you to do anything. I had no help whatsoever for school and did well. My friends who had help from parents (and money) - which showed during school projects etc - but in the end, I was the one who had the drive academically.

I don't think academics is everything. Some kids will be "stupld" at academics, yet excel at other things. I think all this focus on academics is harmful for the kid, especially those who are obviously not into it. There are other jobs out there.

Unless your parents are complete dead beats all parents can help, but just with different things.

I'm fairly sure the children of Gordon Ramsey and Jamie Oliver can cook well. Other children get help with art projects or history or 100 other things.

But society thinks you are clever if you are good at maths and science and project 8 stifled GCSE choices.

No, what the parents of Jamie Oliver and Gordon Ramsay supplied them with was a well stocked warm kitchen with unlimited use of utilities with food available that can be used but more to the point wasted, to see what happens when you combine certain flavours as opposed to having to buy One meal and have to eat it whether it turns out or not
Those are the level playing fields that people need, but nobody wants to talk about that.

Having worked for an organisation that supports families with challenging social circumstances, I think parental support (non-academic), time and overall engagement are more important specifically than helping with one or two particular subjects.

This was really brought home to me during the early stages of Covid when I learnt that some children not only do not have their own desk but there isn't even a dining table to do homework on.

Creating the right learning environment at home is a big help. So is overall engagement with learning and reading in particular.

As children progress through secondary school, the advantages of having parents who can afford to pay for extra tutoring, have more 'social capital', been through the university system etc, come to the fore.

Absolute nonsense

How would university find out about the parents @AgeingDoc ?

Our local university runs a Widening Participation scheme for children who would be the first in their family to access HE (among other criteria) - they won't be the only one.

My lovely dad (would be in his 90s now) left school pretty much after primary and started formal work in his early teens. He would have loved to stay at school and progress to FE and HE but he had no family support & had to pay his way. He was a voracious reader with an insatiable appetite for learning & understanding the world/people/history etc. He was a devoted dad who did everything he could to support us at school - regular library trips, museum visits, art & craft supplies. We were read to, talked to and supported in material ways. We all did really well academically and his lack of educational achievement was irrelevant to the level of support we received from him.

I feel my children have a ridiculous amount of advantage that can't be quantified or adjusted for. They would qualify for contextual offers at some unis because of the school they attend.

They go to a very mixed secondary that was RI when they started (new head and Good now) and have peers with very tricky lives. They attend alongside people who are seeking asylum, people in temporary housing, people navigating the care system. They get to come home to a lovely warm house, their own rooms, tech devices and WiFi on tap, a plentiful supply of food, encouragement and interest, their own desks etc etc.

It isn't fair and unsurprisingly they are thriving and achieving great things where others struggle.

I think the unfairness and the need to "level" goes way back to much younger. My DC have been read to and taken to the library, museums in the holidays, travelled, eaten out, had swimming lessons etc all of their lives. By secondary you're already looking at a gap in cultural capital and life experiences of many many years.

They ask !
Lots of employers do too btw

They “ask” 😆

on the application form? What’s the wording of the querying? And so easy to fib!

Don’t be silly!

You can fib about anything, can’t you?
Do you think everybody that put it on their personal statement actually went to Africa and built a mud hut Hospital?

Why's it silly? @AgeingDoc and @Hardhaton1 are right in saying that many universities ask. Universities set their own criteria for contextual offers. It's not unusual to include parental level of education in the criteria.

Of course you could lie but you could say that about lots of the application form.

I suppose with comprehensive education we are conscious of class division more at school as opposed to other periods of history where middle class and working class schooling were more separate.

I personally think having non involved or poorly educated parents is a huge hurdle to be jumped in terms of formal education but I don't think there is an answer. To my mind positive discrimination should be avoided but then you could say it is in the interests of equity for schools to put more resource into the education of poorer students.

I wonder if teachers tend to bear to the left politically as they on a day to day basis see disadvantage and known the one thing out of their control is honing environment and possibly wish they could. I am suggesting to my daughter's school we hire tutors for subjects where they aren't strong in and the school is not wishing to discuss it perhaps because they don't want to be seen endorsing private parallel education.

There is also the huge issue of aspiration and a lot of parents of non academic children in reality don't care as they see their kids getting jobs locally as they did, getting married and settling down quickly. In my opinion they just see that as the natural and only life path.

What question do they ask on the application form?

How many have you actually seen?